Friday’s special Entertainment Weekly issue focusing on Star Trek: Discovery features a lengthy cover story going behind the scenes on development and soon-debut of the long-awaited television revival of the Trek franchise.

But along with the insight onto the current cast and characters of the new series, EW‘s James Hibbard also reveals through interviews and investigation the details behind the surprise departure of series creator and one-time showrunner Bryan Fuller back in October.

To lead the writing, [CBS] looked to showrunner Bryan Fuller… [who] for years publicly lobbied for the return of ‘Trek’ to television, specifically with a black woman at the fore.

“I couldn’t stop thinking about how many black people were inspired by seeing Nichelle Nichols on the bridge of a ship,” Fuller says. “I couldn’t stop thinking about how many Asian people were inspired by seeing George Takei and feeling that gave them hope for their place in the future. I wanted to be part of that representation for a new era.”

Rumors swirled about for many months that Discovery (though at that time still untitled) would be some form of anthology series, bouncing through time and space throughout the Trek universe.

Fuller publicly shot down that rumor in June 2016, but it turns out that’s actually where he wanted to go all along, from the first meeting with CBS.

Fuller sat with CBS executives to deliver his pitch. It wasn’t just for a ‘Trek’ series but for multiple serialized anthology shows that would begin with the ‘Discovery’ prequel, journey through the eras of Captain James T. Kirk and Captain Jean-Luc Picard, and then go beyond to a time in ‘Trek’ that’s never been seen before.

“The original pitch was to do for science fiction what ‘American Horror Story’ had done for horror,” Fuller says. “It would platform a universe of ‘Trek’ shows.”

CBS countered with the plan of creating a single serialized show and then seeing how it performed. It was a fair compromise, yet demonstrated the first conflict of vision between a powerful company and an inventive writer that would eventually lead to a dramatic falling-out.

Bryan Fuller leads a 50th Anniversary “Star Trek” panel at San Diego Comic-Con 2016.

Fuller was as positive as could be about his aims for the series, and how things were going behind the scenes, when he gave the first major detail dump on the show last August – but things weren’t quite running so smoothly, as EW‘s Hibbard reports.

About a year ago the trades reported that longtime television director David Semel would be joining the series to helm the pilot episode, but Fuller wasn’t on board with that call:

The studio hired [veteran procedural director] David Semel… to direct the ‘Discovery’ pilot against Fuller’s wishes. (Fuller and CBS had no comment on this.) The two clashed in pre-production, with sources saying Fuller thought he was wrong for the job.

The EW report also details issues that didn’t help the situation, like the series overrunning its projected $6 Million-per-episode budget allotment, the difficulty in creating and crafting Starfleet and other costumes of the 22nd Century, but the biggest conflict was having Fuller’s attention split between Discovery and his other series, American Gods, while still trying to hit the original January 2017 launch date plans.

[Perhaps] the biggest issue was trying to launch ‘Discovery’ by January 2017, a date some felt was unrealistic. Fuller was striving to design the new show’s uniforms, sets, and aliens, while also figuring out his first seasons’ complex arc.

[CBS] executives say there were frustrated that, giving the ticking clock, Fuller was spending so much time on his equally ambitious Starz show, ‘American Gods,’ which was simultaneously shooting its debut season.

Fuller shares details on ‘Discovery’ at the August 2016 Television Critics Association press tour.

News broke in December 2016 that The Walking Dead actress Sonequa Martin-Green had been tapped to lead the new series – a fact CBS could not announce until months later due to an agreement with AMC – but Fuller had his eyes on the actress for several months ahead of her association with Discovery making news.

After being pushed from a January to May 2017 premiere due to production issues, Martin-Green’s casting would require yet another delay in Discovery‘s arrival.

In September 2016, CBS pushed ‘Discovery’s’ premiere date to May to give the production more runway… a few weeks later Fuller felt he found the crucial piece of the puzzle when he met with [Sonequa] Martin-Green to play his lead, Michael Burnham.

Yet even that decision ran into a seemingly insurmountable roadblock because AMC would not release the actress until her ‘Walking Dead’ character died on screen in April. The only way the production could hire Martin-Greene was if the show’s premiere was delayed a second time.

Finally, CBS announced last October that Fuller would be leaving the series but would still “remains an executive producer and will continue to help map out the story arc for the entire season” – but by December, Fuller was publicly telling press that he was “not involved” in any capacity with the series.

EW now specifically reports that Fuller was asked to leave Discovery.

In October, after months of backstage tension, CBS Television Studios asked Fuller to step down as showrunner… [the] captain’s chair was filled by [Aaron] Harberts and Gretchen J. Berg, two writers Fuller had worked with for years.

Some of Fuller’s ideas were tossed, however — from the more heavily allegorical and complex story line to his choice of uniforms (a subdued spin on the original series’ trio of primary colors).

While Fuller said in December that CBS “has my number… if they need me,” all signs seem to point towards Fuller keeping Discovery in the rear-view mirror:

“I got to dream big,” Fuller says. “I was sad for a week, and then I salute the ship and compartmentalize my experience.”

Many months later, Fuller saw the ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ trailer. How did he feel watching that? Fuller pauses: “What I can say is… my reaction was that I was happy to see a black woman and an Asian woman in command of a starship.”

This issue of Entertainment Weekly is in stores today — and we’ll see how Star Trek: Discovery turned out when the series debuts September 24.

  • Your Worst Nightmare

    Ya know, I was sad when Fuller was pulled but I had a feeling it was for the best, particularly for an EP who was spread so thin. And while his vision may have been made a little more clear and his Discovery may have had more direct canon visual cues (which obviously would have been more tantalizing for the diehard fans), I do think they made the right call. That may be an unpopular opinion and I get it. But at the end of the day, Fuller’s presence will still be felt. And I do wonder if the series would have ever gotten off the ground had he stayed.

    We shall see, I suppose.

    • Jaro Stun

      I think visually-wise they would have always gone for the Star Trek 2.0 look.
      Though looking at the DIscovery sets, to me they look like a good extrapolation from what we have been shown so far

      • Your Worst Nightmare

        I really meant the costumes by visual cues, but in other areas, you probably are right with the Trek 2.0 comparison.

      • kadajawi

        It’s a shame they did also absolutely had to place this show in the most dated looking part of Trek history. Was that really necessary? There’s no way they could have gone with the TOS look, but why must it play during that time period? If it didn’t, if it played several years after Nemesis, everything would have been fine. No complaints. Go nuts. And several years after Nemesis the Federation is in a weak position, not long after a devastating war. A great place to pick up on, lots of story writing opportunities.

    • TUP

      Although it is interesting to hear that a condition of signing Martin-Greene was delaying the premiere. Tells us they really wanted that actress. It was pretty moot since her signing was well known even when it was unofficial.

      • Your Worst Nightmare

        True. I hope, ultimately, she is worth it. But its nice to know a lot of the doom and gloom has been debunked in this article. Whether or not anyone believes it or not is a whole other issue entirely.

        • Karl

          An even bigger reason to boycott this corporate machine that has hijacked Star Trek from fans both in front of and behind the scenes.

          I hope Fuller gets a shot at doing things right one day, but until then I’ll be doing everything I can to ensure this atrocity fails spectacularly, to hell with the TOS fanboys. You’re part of the problem right now.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Part of the problem? Really? Lol

            This is an entertainment franchise, not the US’s political system. Just put that into perspective. Yes, I will give Discovery a chance. I may not keep watching it depending on how it goes. We’ll see. But your statement is far too dramatic than it needs to be. People will watch this show. They are not part of the problem.

            Get over it.

          • Karl

            US Politic… wtf are you on dude?

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Gooooood stuff. Stuff that makes me see you’re trolling and I have better things to do with my time. Later, tater!

          • Karl

            It’s not trolling, it’s a fact, and you’re in some kind of dreamland where the whole world gets to see a free pilot before making a buying decision.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            No, I’m not but I am getting sick of your attitude. I’m suggesting you give it a chance. If you hate it? Fine. Don’t pay for it. If you like it? Awesome.

            I get the impression you don’t live in the US. I would imagine Netflix offers a free trial in your country if you don’t have it. If you do, what’s the complaint?

          • Karl

            And I’m sick of the attitude of you, and those like you, who preach diversity and tolerance, then bully attack anyone who doesn’t share your rose tinted STD and then brand THEM as the trolls!

            Must do better mate. You’re part of the problem.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Look, we can have differing opinions. I am not saying you can’t. I’m just suggesting giving it a chance. To begin, I simply made a comment. I wasn’t attacking anyone. You called me “part of the problem,” which could easily be described as trolling to begin with. Then I tried to explain my stance and give you a suggestion on how to deal with it and you continue to berate me for wanting to give this show a chance.

            Perhaps my suggesting I was getting sick of your attitude was out of line. I apologize for that. Two wrongs do not make a right.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            He’s pre-judged the show as a failure, and he’s determined to pound down our throats that he is right and we are wrong with his rude insults and incessant negativity…and then, like a child, claims that we are bullying him? Can you actually believe he says that we are bullying him??? WTF??? LOL^2

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            I’m done trying to convince him to give it a chance. I respect that he has a differing an opinion than us. I just wish he would give us the same respect. The world would be pretty boring if we all agreed with each other all the time. 😉

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Also, I have said since DAY ONE, I’m not sure I’m going to love this show. I’m giving it a chance. There are things I’m excited about. There are things I’m not. That’s all. If I don’t, I tune out. I don’t owe anything to Star Trek and have tuned out of series before. So don’t mischaracterize me when you don’t take the time to learn my viewpoint but instead call me “part of the problem.”

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Look at all of your dozens of posts the last couple of weeks. You are the one who is trying to dominate here with you incessant negativity towards other fans.

            Let’s be real about your posts — you are nasty and intolerant, and then when people refuse to bow to your opinion, you say we are all TOS bullies…what a hypocrite.

            What a mean, negative presence you bring to all of us here. And I mean nothing personal by saying this — any objective person reading your posts would say, “that dude’s acting like a complete jerk.”

          • M33

            The question becomes, SFO, would Karl say these things in real life. Everything I post I would say.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Me too.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            I have a better word: entitlement.

            I’m not just picking on Karl here. Its a problem that is rampant in all franchises these days. Fandom generally believes they are entitled to what THEY think is the best idea for the future of the franchise. Well, there’s a reason that so few of us actually work in Hollywood — we (and I’m definitely speaking of myself here too) are not creative enough to come up with an entertaining idea that will make money when it comes to the franchises we love. Star Trek is huge. There are 700+ episodes and 13 movies at present. We all have our favorite episodes and films and it would be pretty boring if we all agreed on the same thing. We also have our own ideas about what will make the best “next chapter.” I don’t know. You don’t know. No one here knows. We all know what we think would make *OURSELVES* happy, but its not the same thing by any stretch.

            To me, a post-NEM series starring Jonathan Frakes as Riker on the Titan would be BORING. I don’t believe Frakes can hold a series on his own. But I respect that not everyone agrees with me on that. I would have much rather seen a complete reboot, but that’s not what we’re getting.

            I don’t know if the team behind Discovery is going to produce something that will stick with me or with the general populous. But I’m not paid to make that happen. I have enough faith to give them a chance. If they pull me in? Great! If not, nothing gained, nothing lost. I move on.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            I’m noticing that every week you complain about someone who doesn’t like this series complaining about it. You called out that other guy last week in the exact same way for doing the same thing. What are they supposed to do?!

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            This guys posts are very nasty and insulting, and also, every time someone has a different opinion from his, he claims they are bullies.

            You and I disagree a lot, but we don’t typically resort to that type of discourse — this dude does it in nearly every post.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Fair enough.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I think I am understanding you better these days!

          • Pedro Ferreira

            It is better to try to understand someone than for someone to group me in with a bunch of people they don’t like and just ignore what I have to say. I’m a bit more complex than ‘I hate Discovery coz it sucks’.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Agreed.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            So try to see where I’m coming from with TNG’s earlier seasons.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I really liked, “Where No One Has Gone Before” in Season 1.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            It’s one of my favourite TNG episodes. It was amazing to watch when I was young and a couple of parts really sad as well. The music is excellent as well.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            It’s trolling. Sigh!

          • UHK

            How is this TOS fanboys’ fault?

          • Karl

            Because they unilaterally lap up anything on a TOS plate that’s put in front of them, so we end up with Trek no one else wants, time and time again. Three TOS movies since 2009, another, what 8 TOS movies? A cancelled tv series. Another cancelled tv series.

            And we’re just supposed to sit her while we go down that route again and be thankful we’re getting any trek.
            At what cost? TOS fanboys lack any understanding of the price being paid time and time again, blindly support it, then when it fail’s they will blame it on absolutely anyone and anything else whilst failing to grasp that the concept itself is what is turning people off again and again.
            How do you fix that broken wagon? More TOS of course.

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    • M33

      “multiple serialized anthology shows that would begin with the
      ‘Discovery’ prequel, journey through the eras of Captain James T. Kirk
      and Captain Jean-Luc Picard, and then go beyond to a time in ‘Trek’
      that’s never been seen before”

      This would have been a really interesting idea, and fun to explore more than one era and its trappings properly, but it is easy to understand why CBS was not willing to take the risk.
      With many of the TV properties they own, they have been somewhat skimpy on the costs for Star Trek, for example the rushed fx rollout they did for the remastering of TOS, and the cost-cutting measures of hiring outside lower-grade fx companies for the even-numbered seasons for the TNG remastering.
      CBS is about bean counting, just like all these ultra-large network companies are.
      It is not surprising to see this is how Discovery has gotten to be where it is now.
      Still, it can be great, but I think everything hinges on the writing from here on out.

      • DS9 is King

        I agree it would of been great to see different Eras maybe the Future Post Nemesis is not so squeaky clean as Picard’s Era they could of gone in many different directions and made the Future Post Nemesis Darker and Grittier but they chose to give us a prequel that will Start a Third Timeline instead.

        • M33

          Hey, Zelda has three distinct timelines, why not Trek?

          • UHK

            Because it doesn’t it and all is does is splinter it even further

          • M33

            Timelins upon timelines upon timelines?

          • UHK

            My god, it’s full of timelines

          • M33

            Great 2010 mash-up quote, there!

      • Jim Cricket

        It would’ve been great and I absolutely adore the idea. But it would have cost an absolute bomb to make. New designs, ships, uniforms, sets, casting every season. Sure, American Horror Story does something similar but the episode cost isn’t the same. Probably why CBS shot it down.

    • Karl
  • David Lund

    It will be interesting to see if the anthology plan continues, with series 2 (if there is one) moving forward in time. Unlikely given the costs of all new sets etc, but this would have made for an interesting story arc linking all the eras. Still ultra excited for what is comjng though!

    • Haukur Clunies-Ross

      Didn’t they say in the article that CBS was against it..? And now with Fuller gone it would be even less likely. But I hope DSC will be so successful that they can make anthology shows in between seasons 😉

      • Eric Cheung

        Sort of how Star Wars alternates anthology movies between “episodes?”

      • TUP

        Nah just said they wanted to see how Discovery performed before committing. The fact they ordered to series the first step in Fuller’s original plan would add credence to the idea CBS was at least open to consideration.

        If Discovery does well, they certainly could greenlight another series. The way serialized “universes” are right now, a second series in a different era where both culminate to some huge storyline where they meet to team up and defeat a common issue could be fun.

        Im sure Netflix would love to have more Star Trek if Discovery is well received.

        • Locutus

          Unfortunately, it sounds like they abandoned his “complex storyline,” which is probably what allowed the story to span generations WITHOUT requiring everyone to “meet up” via time travel. With that gone, a truly interconnected anthology series seems unlikely or at least a stretch at this point.

          • TUP

            I bet burnham was going to be Vulcan. Maybe one altered to look human.

          • Locutus

            That seems quite … logical. However, it would seem strange to put so much emphasis on her cultural diversity being a black woman if she was playing a black vulcan and not a black human. For some reason, it doesn’t send as strong a message.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            It’s unfortunately still going to be heavily serialised.

          • kadajawi

            Serialized is great.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            If not overused like 90% of TV does today.

      • MattR

        Remember that CBS is the king of spin-offs, with the multiple CSI shows, multiple NCIS shows, multiple Criminal Minds shows, etc. I think if Discovery is successful, they’d be more than happy to milk it by producing other shows.

        To commit to an anthology series right off the bat would be difficult because of the costs involved. The big one that has been successful is American Horror Story, which hasn’t required the amount of expenditures on sets, costumes, effects, that Star Trek would require.

    • FightingMongooses

      I fully supported the anthology idea. I think it would have been brilliant to hop around different time periods and different crews.

      Maybe next time…

      • TUP

        I agree. I liked the idea of a Temporal Police series as well. But using a Vulcan as the common thread through multiple series works too.

        • DC Forever

          Yea, but if they changed the timeframe every year, then we’d give the canon whiners a never ending platform for their complaining.

          Next year they be bitching about the Ferrangi ears changing, and the year after they’d be complaining about the redesigned, more realistic and less cheesy looking Borg re-design. Lol

          • M33

            You mean live-theatre-leotard Borg?

          • kadajawi

            How about NOT EFFING CHANGE THESE THINGS THEN?

            Good lord. Also, ENT did change the Andorians, but the changes were subtle, and they helped. Worf also changed from season 1 to 2. But subtle changes, respectful changes are fine. Changing everything for the sake of changing them, that’s what gets me.

          • Eskay

            Enterprise was the worst canon violating show on Star Trek history. It looked nothing what one would have expected a pre-TOS universe and starships to look like. They completely made up the Nx-01 and ignored the earlier enterprise designs that were already outlined in canon in st/tmp

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Exactly. Enterprise was a canon abomination.

          • Karl

            And a reason it was cancelled.
            This will go the same way.

          • kadajawi

            Where were earlier Enterprise designs outlined in TMP? Can’t remember seeing any there.

            Enterprise was placed long enough in the past to showcase a different look. And Enterprise had to do the difficult trick of being believable in universe, while still looking modern enough to us. So basically it has to look more dated than the very dated looking TOS, which looks dated compared to what we have right now, while looking more modern than what we have now (well, back when ENT was on air at least). It is what DSC is trying to pull off, but seems to fail horribly at.

            The NX-01 looks more modern in certain regards, but consider this: The NCC-1701 is a very sleek, smooth design. Engineering takes some space, sure, but not that much. All the tech is relatively well integrated and hidden away. The NCC-1701D continues that trend. Early phones looked very technical, and were huge. Modern phones, while way more capable, just look like slabs of glass surrounded by a bit of metal. Now look back at the NX-01. There are bits and pieces attached to the hull all over the ship. The interior has some modern tech, like LCD monitors, but it’s all somehow stuffed in there. It’s not neat. They needed a monitor at a station, so they just screwed one there. It looks like a prototype. Something that isn’t finished.

            Also, season 5 would probably have shown us a refitted NX-01, which offloads engineering into a separate part of the ship. They have learned from the NX-01, and decided that it needs a beefier engine, and it would be safer etc. to have this section in a different place, where it may be split off in emergencies. A design principle that would be at the core of Starfleet designs for the next hundreds of years. And this ship would have shown us a look that is much more in line with what we consider as a Star Trek design.

            ENT failed for various reasons, especially the first two seasons. All the viewers they have lost and never regained during those seasons. Then again, TNG season 1 was absolutely dreadful, season 2 fortunately had Pulaski, a bright spot in a sea of mediocre. DS9 season 1 and 2 were no where near as good as later seasons, though they were relatively good. And VOY never really got good, but there, too, the first two seasons were bad. By the time ENT was launched, I guess viewers were more finicky. People were willing to go through rough periods and gave shows a chance, but that has since changed. Today a show that doesn’t do great from the start may be cancelled almost immediately, just look at Firefly, which was launched just one year after ENT, and despite being absolutely fantastic didn’t even get a full season! Season 3 of ENT was good, and season 4 was for much of the season as good as anything else that got the name Star Trek. But by that time no one was watching anymore to notice how much better the show had gotten.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Are you really using Enterprise as an example of sticking to canon?

            Seriously???

          • DC Forever

            Enterprise is a horrid example of adherence to canon

    • pittrek

      Well Nicholas Meyer is working on “something” Star Trek related, so who knows, maybe he is working on the next show?

      • Karl

        lame spin off short stories based on STD being the success it isn’t.

      • DS9 is King

        I really Hope Nicholas Myer is working on a Post Nemesis show.

    • Karl

      You assume you’ll be getting a 2nd season..

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        Nothing to assume. The second season is already paid for.

        • Karl

          what?! Where have you discovered this revelation of funding secured for another 4 years?!

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Do you have trouble reading? When did I ever say 4 years?

            Huh???

          • Karl

            2017-2018 season one. You think they can pull another two seasons in one year? Sets need a sound stage rental continuously. Where’s this magical money tree based? I want some.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You are not paying attention. At a recent shareholders meeting, CBS reported that the international Netflix advance purchase of season one has already paid for the complete production costs of season one — and that does not include domestic CBS All Access revenues. So yea, season 2 is a given. Beyond that, who knows.

            But if season one disappoints, they will at least have a second chance at Season 2.

            TNG sucked for almost 2 full seasons before hitting its stride. Trek series notoriously start slow.

          • kadajawi

            Netflix might be able to cancel their order/not order a second season, if it does badly. So yes, season 1 is paid for, but that doesn’t necessarily mean there will be a second season.

            And yes, Star Trek shows are notorious for their terrible first two seasons. The only one it didn’t apply to was TOS. But in this day and age, people are less likely to stick around with a show that isn’t great from the start. It has to be great from the get go and maintain the level, or else viewers will be gone forever. ENT had to learn this the hard way.

  • Visitor1982

    Hopefully, after a couple of seasons, we’ll getting more Star Trek TV shows set in different centuries… 22nd, 23rd, 24th and Beyond!

    • Karl

      Your assumption that there will be a 2nd season is laughable, if not wildly optimistic.
      Crowdfunding?

      • M33
      • Jeff O’Connor

        Of course there will be a second season. They won’t pull the plug after one year. This is too big a venture for them and there’s too much riding on not just Discovery but other pipeline projects in an effort to give All Access the big boost they’re seeking. Whether or not Discovery goes on after two or three seasons — that’s the big question, I think.

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          Well said!

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        They’ve already made enough $ in worldwide sales to finance two seasons. Your comment illustrates that you have not been paying attention, or you are just naive, or both.

  • Eric Cheung

    Hmmm…fascinating, and sobering read, if not unexpected. There seems to be responsibility on both sides. While Fuller’s ideas would have been a little closer to traditional canon as we know it, an anthology series would have probably been too expensive, as awesome as it would have been.

    • TUP

      That was my thought. When the speculation of an anthology series first came out, I loved it. But imagine going through the expense of creating new ships, new uniforms, new everything each season in a sci fi setting.

      It doesnt sound like CBS was totally against it, but wanted to see how well Discovery would do before committing.

      That also explains the evasiveness when explaining Burnham’s character initially – there was so much speculation that she would be the one common thread runnuing through each season. I wonder if she was originally a Vulcan, and thus could appear from Discovery to to post Nemesis.

      I would love to see his idea for the uniforms. While I dont dislike the new unis, I like that Fuller wanted something closer to what was seen.

    • Locutus

      I agree. CBS is taking a risk on the new series given how the most recent Star Trek TV show failed. It sounds like Fuller was asking them to commit to a five-year show spanning generations. Expensive indeed! And risky as hell expecting the audience to hang in there for a five-year story. On the other hand, playing it safe was probably a large part of what got Berman-era Trek into trouble.

    • Gary Sebben

      A lot of people don’t know it, but there’s already a TOS era Anthology series, and one of the storylines even has Harry Mudd in it: http://trekcomic.com/episodes/

      • Karl

        lol

  • Jaro Stun

    what bugs me to no end this FORCED focus on diversity. showing diversity down the throats of everyone. mind you, I am not against diversity of any kind. but what would be wrong about simply just having “a black woman and an Asian woman in command of a starship” and not boasting around at every corner about it.

    Whom is that marketing targeted at? Smart people would either not even care or notice, because diversity and inclusion is regular for them not posing an issue, stupid people will not get it regardless of how many times you throw it at them. Is america so racist that a black/asian commanding person is still an issue over there???

    Seems to me like that was the mission: “create a show about diversity (and pack it into whatever franchise envelope is available at that time)”. And that seems to me like a misguided Fuller’s personal mission. Which unfortunately has been retained by CBS.

    • Daniel Shock

      Sometimes you have to be intentional about including people who have been excluded. I’m sorry and sad that bothers you.

      • Jaro Stun

        did you read what I wrote?
        problem is not diversity itself, problem is it seems to me its more important than the content of the show in its marketing lol

        • Daniel Shock

          I don’t think you thought before you typed. He is being asked what he wanted to do and he answered. It isn’t marketing.

          • Jaro Stun

            I thought very well before i typed, thank you very much

          • DC Forever

            That’s even worse then.

        • DC Forever

          If that is your perception, then I think you have the problem.

          I have been following the marketing of this show since day one, and there is no way that “the diversity thing” has received more than 5 to 10 percent of the coverage. So it is downright untruthful to claim that that the majority of the marketing by CBS has been focused on the diversity – anyone watching all the coverage knows this. Did you even follow all the Comicon coverage last week?

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          Again…Except it’s not CBS, but the media who is focusing on the diversity component. Get your facts straight, dude — I challenge you to ID actual press kits and materials put out by CBS marketing that backs up your point here?

        • Pedro Ferreira

          Exactly!

    • David Lund

      Um, why are you offended by the promotion of diversity if you aren’t against diversity itself? Star Trek has always been about promoting diversity, from Uhura onwards – ever heard of IDIC? It’s fundamental to the show!! Anything that helps challenge the racism, sexism and homophobia still rife in the world should be welcomed

      • Karl

        Who the hell said anything about him being offended? Leaping down people’s necks as per usual, because?
        Shut your shuttle bay.

    • Dude what

      have you ever watched Star Trek before?

      • Jaro Stun

        Citing the EW cover:

        Inside the 12-year mission to bring pop culture’s most beloved franchise back to TV – and to boldly go where no WOMAN has gone before

        I am not sure what Kate Mulgrew was doing for 7 year, but it must be, that she was not BOLDLY going. Hmm…too bad

        My single point, is, they are overdoing the diversity marketing.
        By sheer amount of replies here though, it is clear, they know what they are doing. carry on

        • kadajawi

          I kind of get what you’re going at, but as long as it’s the marketing, and it doesn’t hurt the story telling, I’m fine with it. For example in TOS, no one in the show acted as if it was any special that there was a woman on the bridge. Or a Japanese. Or a Russian. For a short while they did that with Janeway, but only a very short while. Sadly Janeway was badly written, in parts by the need to show that a woman can be as tough as a man (and then some). So much so that she was pretty bad as a captain.

        • Karl

          It’s not on TV.

    • Salvador Nogueira

      Maybe you didn’t notice, but these days movies and series have global audiences. There are about 1.5 billion viewers in China that don’t understand how come there may be no asians in the future, just because the production is american. I’m hailing from Brazil, and I’m yet to see a Brazilian in Star Trek. So, when they say they have diversity as a priority, they are talking to me, not necessarily to you. 😉

      • DC Forever

        Well said!

      • Jaro Stun

        funny how you assume I am american lol
        i assure you i have never seen and probably never wil see a person from my small country in europe as a character on big american TV show.

        that does not mean I am going to cry to the diversity gods though

        • Salvador Nogueira

          It is not a matter of where you are, it is a matter of who the show is going to represent, on a global market. Just imagine: a glorious Starfleet starship, a beautiful future for mankind, and no one like you around. Maybe you would cry for the diversity gods if the cast were 100% african. (I’d love to hear your comments on THAT. I doubt you would unwelcome diversity then.)

          • Jaro Stun

            then let me give you that comment.
            I would care very little if the crew was all african, all asian all bolian for that matter. If the stories and characters were good, vfx engaging, I would enjoy the show.

            Mind you there are some really good full-asian crewed movies coming from China, if you are into martial artis. check it out (yeah, they dont cry diversity, not too many white (or other) ppl in there, booooo)

            all of you so focusing on diversity are just proving how intolerant, down deep inside, YOU are. You can call yourself tolerant, if the diversity is not a thing for you, but a natural occurence/order of things. If you need to remind yourself so frequently to be accepting of diversity, well then maybe something is wrong and its just the repressed racism that is calling shots.

          • Salvador Nogueira

            You’re missing the point completely.

            Of course you can have a samurai movie, a martial arts movie, with an all asian cast. Of course you can have an american story movie with an all american cast. Of course I can have a film set in Brazil that has only Brazilians in its cast.

            What you CANNOT is having a movie or series that is about the FUTURE of the WHOLE MANKIND, and have some major part of mankind missing in it. It would be miscasting, somewhat as casting only Irish people for a samurai movie. If your movie or series is about the whole human race, you better have it as wholy represented as you can. Otherwise, you’re miscasting. It is as simple as that. When the producers mention diversity, they are showing us they are not miscasting.

          • Jaro Stun

            ok, to make it clear to you, so you dont get hidden behind PART of my comment, ignore the message and, actually, dont get the point, let me reiterate:

            I would care very little if the crew was all african, all asian all bolian for that matter. If the stories and characters were good, vfx engaging, I would enjoy the show.

            all of you so focusing on diversity are just proving how intolerant, down deep inside, YOU are. You can call yourself tolerant, if the diversity is not a thing for you, but a natural occurence/order of things. If you need to remind yourself so frequently to be accepting of diversity, well then maybe something is wrong and its just the repressed racism that is calling shots

          • Salvador Nogueira

            I’m fine with you enjoying whatever you enjoy. To each its own. What I’m saying is that I wouldn’t enjoy any story about the future of the human race where I don’t see the different parts of human race properly represented, and that, unlike you, I’m quite happy the producers think like me, and not like you, who would gladly accept a series about the future of the human race that featured a bolian-only cast. 😛

          • Jaro Stun

            there were fully vulcan-crewed vessels in Star Trek (and I think a Klingon show was once a very popular idea)

          • DC Forever

            We never saw that Vulcan crewed ship, and they all died off-screen in that single episode…whoops!

          • Karl

            It might surprise you, but English isn’t the language of the world. Where are your non english speakers hmmm?
            Shall we drop a few characters in for proper representation and either learn their languages or have subtitles?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Actually, using more subtitles in Star Trek is a great idea. Why do they always portray the aliens as speaking English. And don’t give me that Universal Translator nonsense, because the aliens are mouthing the world in English, not an alien language.

          • DC Forever

            Nope – the problem is that there are still a lot of people in this world who need diversity “rammed down their throats” if that is the term we must use.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Really, where?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Russia, Mississippi, Saudi Arabia….I could go on and on. Like, duh! 🙂

          • Pedro Ferreira

            If that’s the case I’m glad I was raised liking people of different races.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Yea, me too, dude!

          • Jaro Stun

            and one more thing. noone is complaining about crew of Discovery being Diverse. I am complaining about CBS marketring (and others) showing down that fact down everyone’s throats on every possible occasion.

            Do you see the difference? If not, no point to talk further

          • Salvador Nogueira

            I see the difference, but I don’t see the relevance. Why do you care how they MARKET a show?

          • Jaro Stun

            because it gets annoying to be banged over head with all the same educational, political cotrrectness reminders from american media all the time.

            but given the president they have chosen, maybe it is actually needed.

          • Salvador Nogueira

            Finally we find common ground. 🙂

          • DC Forever

            There you go!!! Bingo!!!

            Thank you!

          • Karl

            It was the same with Sulu in beyond.
            The PR machine abused that tiny fleeting scene out of all proportion, so by the time people actually saw the movie they realised it was so insignificant that they couldn’t understand what all the fuss is about.

            It is exactly the same with STD. Using and abusing diversity as a marketing ploy, when they shouldn’t be focusing on it at all and just get on with the job of ruining star trek.

          • DC Forever

            You are confusing what the media is focusing on with what CBS is trying to market.

            And you know why the media keeps coming back to this? It’s because they keep bringing up to the cast members the hate posts by a few trolls on social media. So no offense, but your like 10+ posts on this today is exactly why this is news. You are helping to sustain this focus that you claim you don’t want.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Great points. All the people who whine about the diversity issue are in effect enabling the press news coverage of it. How ironic is that? 🙂

          • Pedro Ferreira

            So by that reasoning all people who complain about people who don’t want forced diversity don’t get hounded by mainstream media? Why does that sound hypocritical?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Except it’s not CBS, but the media who is focusing on the diversity component. Get your facts straight, dude.

          • M33

            Actually, it has gotten to be way more than that.
            Intentionally rewriting history on-screen with other ethnicities that would never have been there in the first place.
            Doctor Who has been doing this a lot of late.
            And unfortunately, it demeans the hard battles those who were minorities fought for their place to be recognized not as second-class citizens when Hollywood “diveristy-first” types steamroll over the actual history in order to fit the cause of the day.
            People died for the right to be treated equally, endured hardships beyond any of our imaginings.
            Frankly, it is insulting to our intelligence as people when they think they can sugarcoat history to this degree.

          • DC Forever

            Ah, Dr. Who is a silly little fantasy show that is not real history.

            Loving the new female Dr. who, and still hoping for an Idras Elba James Bond. So sue me!

          • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

            Well said, keep it coming. They seem to have really bought into current identity politics nonsense.

          • DC Forever

            Jaro has a wing-man! Lol

            Yea, keep it coming everyone – these guys are going to set us straight. Lol

          • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

            lol like I said in another post MLK had it right: judge by content of character, not color.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You’d be well advised to review this quote by MLK:

            “Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

          • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

            lol at the self righteous “well advised”

            But, again, you ignore that MLK was advocating for being color blind, and judging on merit. The current PC crowd would call MLK a sell out, Uncle Tom.

          • DC Forever

            You just proved Oracle’s point. You sound like a good guy who actually believes that King would support your ant-political correctness take on his quote. You statements (nothing personal) come across as sincerely ignorant and conscientiously wrong.

            You really mean well, but you don’t understand, and it’s doubtful that anyone will be able to convince you of your error in judgement on this.

          • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

            lol being colorblind and judging people on merit is good and the right way to do it, but I’ve already too much.

            Your PC identity politics are sincerely ignorant and conscientiously wrong, not to mention it is very divisive and most of the country hasn’t fallen for it.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Wow, three posts to figure out your response to DC! It’s like you keep changing your defense in real time to grasp at whatever you can come up with? Keep the massive amounts of defensive posts coming, dude. If you put up another 7 post here that will give you an even 10. LOL

            Here is a paraphrased quote from Aristotle for you to digest:

            Beware of those who argue quantity over substance!

          • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

            lol you should take your own advice, as that post had no substance.

            And all of that doesn’t change this: PC “sjw” identity politics is nonsense.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You keep attempting to take a discussion on Star Trek diversity and bait people here into whatever political agenda you have, with your little political labeling code words like SJW, your fake-ass co-opting of civil rights quotes to back up your agenda, and your simplistic tweet-like rapid retorts.

            Sorry, not falling for it. Go find yourself a political site to post this silly stuff on. LOL

          • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

            For lack of a better term, what you are saying is very SJW and people can see through the divisive nonsense SJWs say.

          • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

            You are also ignoring the “content” of what MLK said in favor of the current PC spin on it.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Exactly. Notice how it too him three posts to put together a cogent response to you on this. He’s getting very defensive. Sore spot targeting is at 100%

          • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

            Also, if you are quote King yourself you shouldn’t ignore what he said about judging based on character, not color.

          • DC Forever

            Exactly. The sad thing is that I think “Tom Cruise” really believes that King would be backing his anti-political correctness views. 🙁

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Nailed it!

          • TUP

            Ummmm, did you actually sarcastically say how all Asian films dont have fans crying for white people to be in it.

            You realize the point of being diverse has nothing to do with making sure the old white guys are suitably represented? We do all right…

          • Jaro Stun

            hmm no. just an example of good movie(s) which are not headed by white male guys as a reply to poster above.

        • Pedro Ferreira

          Well said!

      • Karl

        As an international viewer I can tell you that the current consensus is not to give Netflix a single viewer metric. CBS is the problem, and they are once again paying for it in slow motion.
        Grab your popcorn!

        • Your Worst Nightmare

          So, you’ve polled the entire international Star Trek fan community? That’s the only way you’ll get any sort of consensus.

          And, before you suggest otherwise, I’m not trolling you. I’m challenging you. You’ve made a pretty broad, bold statement. Back it up.

        • TUP

          Stop the PRESSES! Karl has asked every international Star Trek fan about their intentions concerning Star Trek.

          Really, you have to be a gimmick account at this point. How much longer will you be allowed to go on is the real question.

      • Karl

        Sulu

    • Gary Sebben

      Sad puppy troll. Vox sends a couple of them to every thread. Just ignore.

      • Chris

        Nope I grew up watching Star Trek.

        • Gary Sebben

          You can be a sad puppy and watch Star Trek. You might get the wrong message, or miss it all together, but you can watch.

    • Chris

      If the lead actress was raised on Vulcan, why does her speech sound so ghetto at times during the voiceovers? Horrible acting. I can’t take this show seriously.

    • DC Forever

      Giving we got another “the man” type in charge of the USA, I say shove the diversity down my throat as much as possible.

      Let the rainbow shine down on Star Trek, because it sure as heck in shining from the top down these days.

    • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

      Well said, you are entirely correct. Sulu and Uhura were Asian and black but the characters weren’t all about that and even Sisko only had about two episodes where his blackness was important , and one of those was the Benny Russell episode.

      I find it funny and ironic that MLK said he wanted people to be judged on content of character not color and the PC identity politics crowd that is around now judges everything by color and ignores content of character.

      • M33

        I think the latter is that they do judge by content of character… but only first after making sure the color is correct first.
        I could be wrong…

    • Gary Sebben

      In 95 or more percent of all productions the TPTB demand a white guy as the lead. That’s not an accident or based on talent. Its enforced. Over and over again. The race of characters is always considered. Always. It overwhelmingly favors white. It’s only when the someone other than a white guy in specifically called for that people come out of the woodwork to say “what a forced decision. They were picked because they were black/female/gay/asian/etc.” Yeah, no kidding. So was the white guy.

    • SpaceCadet

      “Is America so racist…?” Yes, yes it is. An Asian woman or Black woman or a woman of color in general being the lead of a dramatic big-budget series is a rarity here. That’s why diversity is such a big deal and the media can market is as much as they want. It’s positive publicity for the show that will get more eyeballs to tune in especially from people who might not otherwise be into Star Trek or sci-fi in general.

    • Karl

      It was the same with Sisko and with Janeway. Nothing new here.

  • Eric

    I have to say that it seems Fuller was indeed spread to thin and this woukd have given him less leverage with CBS, and continuously delayed the show. But I am sad that he needed to leave. Even without the anthology, which could been great, his allegorical, complex storytelling and yes his uniforms would have been welcome. I like the new ones, but something just as beautiful and well crafted while giving a clearer nod to canon woukd have been very, very nice.

    • Admiral SnackBar

      I’m hoping the door remains open for him to possibly return to the show in the future.

    • M33

      Hey, and they can always change uniforms mid-series.
      TNG did it.
      So did DS9.

  • DIGINON

    His reaction to the trailer seems a little ominous. Maybe I’m reading too much into it but it almost sounds like not much of his work has survived. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. The show we get could be better than his original idea, it could just be different from his original idea (but on the same level), or his original idea could have been better. Who knows?

    • Locutus

      I agree his reaction seems ominous. On the other hand, he must be quite bitter at this point too. It is difficult to set aside all that conflict and smile and nod with appreciation at the decisions that were made without him. He will always compare the new series with his ambitious dream and come away disappointed.

      • DIGINON

        You are probably right about Fuller being at least a bit bitter. Which would be understandable.

        • Karl

          You lot are incredible.
          If people on here are critical, they are branded trolls.
          If fuller seems critical it’s because he’s bitter.

          You’ll spin anything into your rose tinted view of this disaster.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Don’t you even know when people are essentially agreeing with you?

            LOL — the dude agreed with your position on Fuller. Duh!

          • TUP

            Karl, you’re the one branding everyone as trolls. Grow up.

    • Eric Cheung

      I took his reaction to be fairly realistic, given he was no longer in control. He had seemed to make some peace with what happened and expressed pride in getting what he probably considered the most important part of his vision in there, the still rare Asian and Black female leads on a network show.

      He’s said he’s still available to work on the show if things work out.

      • JP

        Yeah, if “what’s most important” is the race and gender of the actors instead of the storytelling, it’s fantastic.

        • Eric Cheung

          In-universe, maybe not, but in the real world, yes. Women and POC are still incredibly underrepresented. Fuller actually consulted with Mae Jemison, who was inspired to be an astronaut by Nichelle Nichols. So, seeing heroes like that on TV has a profound effect on future generations.

          • JP

            It’s all for naught if the story (and therefore viewers) aren’t there. The issue I have is with the race & gender of the actors being described as “most important.”

            Let’s hope not.

          • Eric Cheung

            It never has been, and never will be. But it’s a fact that is unavoidable when talking about the casting of the show, so it only appears that way. What I have a problem with is that it whenever a non-straight-white-male gets cast, the motives of the show get questioned. This happens every time, since the beginning of the franchise. The more diverse a show, the better opportunities for storytelling, not worse. I’d be more worried about the storytelling if all the characters were similar in personality and background than if they were different. It would show a lack of imagination and empathy on the part of the writers. And without empathy, the writers wouldn’t be able to write drama, because they wouldn’t be able to juggle multiple points of view.

          • JP

            In your first comment you said you assumed diversity in casting was his “most important” concern, even over the actual story. That is what I am questioning – and you said it, not me.

            If you are clarifying that now then we probably don’t disagree.

          • Eric Cheung

            I believe that representation is the most important part of the real-world consequences of casting. I think it is the starting point to creating a character, so it is the most important foundation of the writing process. But once the character’s background is determined, then that inspires the writer to create something wholly unique in its specificity.

            But, I said it was Fuller’s most important contribution to DSC, not the most important part of the show…necessarily. We don’t know how much CBS changed from his vision, but the one thing we know for sure he contributed is the unprecedented diversity in the show by deliberately creating an Asian woman captain, a Black woman first officer series lead, and the first TV regular gay character on the show. So it certainly is Fuller’s most important contribution as far as we know, and I guessed the one of which he’s most proud. That’s what it sounded like in the article, given the quotes from him.

          • M33

            “and the first TV regular gay character on the show.”

            You mean bi-sexual Dax doesn’t count?

            http://www.fuckingright.com/uploader/files/1/ds9_dax_kiss.gif

            Or do you mean “regular gay” as in male-gay?

          • TUP

            Dont split hairs. Dax wasnt presented as bi-sexual outside of one episode.

            Unless you’re argument is, Dax kissed a woman once so we shouldnt have any gay characters on TV anymore.

          • M33

            I was stating it in jest. I understand his point.
            Also, I would never state that a person should be barred from TV because of their sexual orientation.
            I have marched in Pride parades, helped throw Pride events, and have raised money for nonprofits that push for equal treatment for all.
            But to answer your points, considering I am married to a woman who is bisexual (and monogamous), I can tell you that the bisexual person views the gender as totally secondary–it is the person that they love or have affection for that counts.
            So, in theory, and as gender was never brought up as a hangup for Dax in that episode, she may well be bisexual.
            Just because people don’t act “typically” gay doesn’t mean their orientation isn’t. I’ve met many of both genders that you’d never know they were “straight.”

          • TUP

            Believe me you dont have to tell me about being gay. lol

            My point was, we shouldn’t minimize the important of a gay lead character in an expensive, premium TV show just because the same franchise once had a lead character do a “gay” episode (which had the * of, Dax is a male alien inside a female body to a degree)

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Gay gay, not half gay otherwise it’s not diverse enough! Dear oh dear, ha, ha!

            Sidenote: Susanna Thompson is really going for it there.

          • M33

            Sure is!
            My wife was the one who pointed out to me that one can see a string of shared saliva form between them off of their first kiss, so yeah, they really went for it!
            LOL My wife always notices these sorts of odd details…

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Hey if I had to kiss Terry Farrell I’d have that enthusiasm as well. I didn’t notice the saliva though.

          • M33

            It’s real faint.
            Believe me, she had me rewind the scene a few times because I didn’t see it either.

            Yeah… that sounds funnier than it ought too… LOL

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Ha, ha!

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I gotta say it — that scene is really hot! 🙂

          • Karl

            Gay people had zero representation for 50 years, don’t see it effecting the “importance” either in universe, or not.

          • TUP

            So you’re a bigot too? Not surprising.

            If the importance of representation on TV and film for minorities, including gays is not apparent to you, just stay quiet lest you embarrass yourself.

          • Guest

            Given that homosexuality is most likely caused by childhood sexual abuse and parental abandonment/neglect, how does the LGBT lifestyle fit with the optimistic future that Star Trek is supposed to represent?

          • TUP

            And there we go.

            Can we please have this ignorant bigoted troll sent packing please.

            If people that you are Star Trek fans Im ashamed to be one. Disgusting. No one can tell you what to think but please have the good sense to keep that garbage to yourself.

          • Guest

            I see. You cannot refute so you insult.

          • TUP

            My reply was not an insult. It was a reasonable response to a bigoted statement that has no place here.

            You DO realize you’re a bigot right?

            I mean, I could say that you’re behavior here is evidence of childhood trauma and then demand you prove me wrong. I mean, that might explain why you act this way.

          • Guest

            More namecalling and now dodging, yet still no refute to my original post.

          • TUP

            You want intelligent people to refute your ignorant statement? It doesnt need refuting. It stands as completely false on its own.

            Look around you. Many gay people. You think they were all sexually abused? Dont be stupid. I personally know many gay people that were never abused.

            I’d tell you to grow up, but you’re a bigot so its not just lack of maturity.

            I hope this site deals with you. Its disgusting.

          • Guest

            Three comments later and you still haven’t refuted my original point with any facts. So far you’ve called called me a bigot four times and stupid once. Not once in any this comment chain have I used any ad hominem attacks towards you.

            And another thing: How do you know that I’m not LGBT? Do you automatically assume that all LGBT want LGBT marriage or that all LGBT insist on mandatory LGBT characters in all works of fiction?

          • TUP

            Dont try to explain away your bigotry by trying to start a discussion about gay characters. You should be permanently banned. I’d demand the same thing if you made remarks as distasteful about any other group.

            And what the heck does being gay have to do with anything. I dont care if you’re gay, straight or anything else You’re comments were still bigoted and ignorant.

            Refute what? That you’re wrong. Good God. You’re a sick man.

            If I know several gay people who were not abused that refutes you, hick.

          • Guest

            Wow. I still haven’t used any ad hominem attacks against you, yet you continue using them towards me and now you want me permanently banned just because you have no legitimate refute against my original post. That seems to go against what Star Trek is supposed to be about.

          • TUP

            Its not an attack to be critical of an ignorant and hateful statement or the bigot making it.

            I’ve now refuted you twice. The fact you think people are turned gay as a result of abuse is mind boggling. You’re gross. Please go away forever.

          • Guest

            Five replies with no refute to my original post but with plenty of childish ad hominem attacks and a “demand” that I be permanently banned. It really saddens me that this is what Star Trek fandom has become.

          • TUP

            refuted twice. Try getting someone smarter than you to explain it.

            Common sense is the refutation.

  • Eric Cheung

    I still want that suit he wore at last year’s Comic Con. I imagine that grey and black striped suit is probably custom-made though.

  • DC Forever

    I think we dodged a bullet here, everyone!

    Fuller’s history is really cool looking shows with neat ideas, but sorely lacking in coherent storytelling and plotting. Most of the reviews of “American Gods” for example, have used terms like “a gorgeous mess,” etc. to describe it.

    So hopefully we get the best of both worlds (pun intended) — we get Fullers ideas, but then we get better storytelling and plotting that makes sense.

    So I think CBS made the right call in firing him.

    • kadajawi

      Er, I really enjoyed American Gods, thank you. It may not be for everyone, yes, but so what?

      • DC Forever

        I was simply pointing out that the reviews were mixed, with some elements of the show as great (e.g cinematography, ideas) and other elements not very good (e.g. writing and plot).

        And that has always been the issue with Fuller’s work – great looking with big ideas, but unable to deliver a coherant story.

  • Chris

    Bastards.Fuller had a good idea which would have drawn me, and plenty of other
    fans in, and the studio ruined it. I shouldn’t be surprised. It’s happened so many times before.

    • Karl

      Simple. Boycott it mate.
      #notmystartrek

      • JP

        I’ll give the free first episode a fair shot, but it will have to be mind-blowing to get me to pay to watch with all of these in-built problems.

        • M33

          5 million people gave Enterprise a shot.
          Eventually it fizzled.
          Maybe we will get lucky with Discovery, but I understand the concerns.

          • Jessicahwoodruff

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        • Karl

          I guess you’re lucky that you get a free episode over the air.

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          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Is that internet job for $97/hour the CBS-paid trolling position, perhaps?

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            LOL!

          • Pedro Ferreira

            So…what do you think about diversity in Star Trek?

        • Northstar Deplorable

          Agree. I would have given the proposed “anthology” idea a look. I’ll tune in to the first episode, but after that…not so much.

        • TUP

          Which built in problems, that its not the story basis that you would have chosen? That’s pretty self absorbed, no?

  • Armsman

    Reading that all I can say is: I’m GLAD Bryan Fuller left. The last thing I wanted to see was a further retcon of the 23rd century era just so he could get back to the 24th century era again (we’ve had 21 seasons of 24th century era Star Trek – it’s been done to death.) The fact he was a former writer of ST:VOY (the only franchise series I gave up watching after “The 37’s” – and I’ve been watching Star Trek first run since I was age 6 in 1969) didn’t fill me with excitement he was going to be the EP on a new Star Trek series.

    I think CBS made a good call on this one – but time will tell.

    • Karl

      You’re in a minority that doesn’t even factor in to single digit percentages.
      Make some fan films or something.
      Oh, no, wait. You can’t do that either.

      • DC Forever

        Don’t quit your day job, becuase the comedy thing just isn’t working out for you.

        • M33

          I agree.
          When debates or disagreements resort to snarky comments, the discussion is over.
          Debate please, but articulate your points; don’t attack!

      • SpaceCadet

        What is your problem? Why are you so nasty to people? Don’t like your life or something? Anyway, I’m going to sign up for CBS All Access now and you can continue trolling these message boards if you like. 🙂

        • M33

          Maybe he’s a planted troll-bot from CBS to get people riled up enough to actually join CBS All Access just to prove him wrong.

          Maybe…?
          Just a wild theory…

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Can we drop it with the paid troll theory? We sound like a bunch of conspiracy theorists. People have the right to differing opinions. It doesn’t make them right or wrong and it certainly doesn’t make them shills.

          • M33

            YWN, I was kidding.
            Nuance is easily lost online.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Fair enough. 🙂

          • Karl

            But on here it does make you a target of the TOS bullies.

          • TUP

            Actually being rational makes you a target of the Karl & Friends team of bullies, apparently. If only one of you was intelligent enough to make an insightful argument, we’d all be in trouble. Fortunately, thats not the case.

      • Barak Aslani

        There are planted trolls from CBS for sure. Allegedly Trekmovie.com gets sponsorship funding from Paramount. So don’t take the bait my friends. He is right however, we can’t even make engaging Trek fan films anymore. Sure – let’s blindly blame Axanar… and not look at the ridiculously bullish and unfair strait jacket the studios have created as an excuse to curb competition. The fans know what they want, and the fans have to be brave enough, and clear minded enough – to stand up. We won’t be shamed for wanting our Star Trek back, and when they retcon and reboot and rehash, they insult continuity and they insult our community. Don’t support Discovery. Don’t pay for it, or even use Netflix. It will take self restraint, but don’t support it. When they see it’s not popular, it will die a quick death and in 10 years, someone will step up to the plate and give us Star Trek with integrity again.

        • Your Worst Nightmare

          Lol… planted trolls. That’s funny. Is it possible that people have differing opinions on this subject than you? You sound like a conspiracy theorist.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            LOL — agreed. Barak keeps whining about Trekmovie…so lame.

            Barak, stick to Star Trek please.

          • TUP

            Barak must have been kicked off Trekmovie. Wonder how long he’ll last here. Meanwhile the people he attacks repeatedly post on both with no issues.

            This nonsense is really aggravating. We can discuss without all the insults and bullying from people like Barak and “Guest”

          • TUP

            Dont bother, they are just planted shills from Orville. hahahaha

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Tehehe.

        • Guest

          “There are planted trolls from CBS for sure. Allegedly Trekmovie.com gets sponsorship funding from Paramount.”

          Agreed. See Torchwood and TUP at said site.

          • TUP

            Yes, I am a paid shill. Thats why if a jerk like “Guest” looked through my posts he’d see my overwhelming criticism of the JJ films. Cause Im a paid shill.

            Guest, you’re a miserable slanderous liar. Please stop.

        • Karl

          Exactly.
          The TOS bullies on this site want it their way, or the highway. Any critical comments and they perceive it as negative and hostile, then over react by banding together and launching an attack. It happens on every article on every Trek site. They are the reason garbage gets greenlit in the first place, but won’t accept an ounce of responsibility when it fails and will blame it on anyone and everyone else.

          Already there are people on here branding Fuller as bitter because he’s not singing STD’s praises! They call themselves open minded and tolerant, yet their behaviour is in total contradiction when attacking people who reject the STD project.

        • Eskay

          Let me guess / Trekmovie kicked you out, didn’t they?

        • TUP

          You mean the same Trekmovie that allowed vicious criticism of the JJ films and the people making it? That Trekmovie?

    • kadajawi

      What the…?

      a) CBS is doing the retconning. They are creating uniforms that don’t look like TOS and kicked out the TOS uniforms, they are creating ships that don’t look like TOS, and don’t act like TOS.

      b) The 24th century era is much more interesting, and would justify the design changes CBS wants.

      c) This show should much rather venture into the 25th century.

      • UHK

        The 24th century era isn’t more interesting

        • Pedro Ferreira

          Neither is the 23 century.

          • UHK

            Wrong.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            No it’s true. You can’t honestly say the 24th Century isn’t interesting and then say the 23rd Century is interesting. From both we’ve got a deal deal of amazing stories. You might be obsessed with prequels but you end up coming across as biased in saying that.

          • UHK

            Still wrong.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            You’re entitled to your opinion although don’t expect many to agree with you.

          • UHK

            They’re wrong too

          • Pedro Ferreira

            But they could easily say you’re wrong yourself and they could be right.

          • UHK

            They could?

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Yeah they could. In fact some fans can enjoy and appreciate everything.

    • Pedro Ferreira

      Oh that’s good so more prequels eh? (rolls eyes).

  • pittrek

    Hm, Fuller’s ideas actually sound interesting.

    ” Some of Fuller’s ideas were tossed, however — from the more heavily allegorical and complex story line to his choice of uniforms (a subdued spin on the original series’ trio of primary colors).”
    – OK this just made me sad and angry at the same time Star Trek was always full of allegories, so it’s good to know he wanted to continue the tradition, and they dropped it? He even wanted the “chronologically correct” uniforms and they changed them?

    • JP

      This thing is going to tank because it’s purposely straying from canon and it’s not going to interest new viewers to cough up enough $$ to watch.

      The subsection of people who are actually going to consistently pay for this are going to be too small, even if it’s great storytelling.

      • Karl

        It’s the JJ atrocities in microcosm, once again designed by consensus. Ever heard about Jack of all trades?

        • kadajawi

          Remember Expendables 2? They tried to make that movie PG, which a) pissed off those who would actually want to watch the movie, i.e. adults who have grown up with and loved those 80s action movies with all their violence etc., and b) failed to get any interest from people who wouldn’t be interested anyway.

          Would new audiences really be turned away if the show was placed long after Kirk? I highly doubt it. Did anyone care that Doctor Who had like 500 episodes prior to the relaunched Doctor Who? The new show could be written so that new audiences can quickly get up to speed, while fans will still enjoy it. Would old audiences be turned away if the show was placed long after Kirk? Hell no! By now there may be more fans of the later shows than of TOS (I just don’t care about TOS, for example. I like the characters, and a handful of episodes, but that’s it).

          Would new audiences be turned away by a more dated look? Were they with Rogue One? Retro is cool. Would fans be turned away if it looked more like TOS? Again, I doubt it.

          • Karl

            Never seen it.

        • M33

          “Jack of All Trades”!
          It’s a great show!!

          http://images.zap2it.com/assets/p184612_b_h3_aa/jack-of-all-trades.jpg

          • Pedro Ferreira

            It didn’t last long did it?

          • M33

            No it didn’t, but what a fun show!
            Best opening for a TV show ever I think. It’s probably the only show where I never skip the opening credits.
            Great stuff!

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Having seen it now I agree.

  • JP

    Well, shit. I was hoping that Discovery was actually going to be a secret premise that made a time leap into post-Spock era prime timeline… you know, “new worlds.” What we all want instead of another badly shoe-horned prequel.

    Looks like Fuller wanted to go there too, and was shot down.

    That is really disappointing. What great premise for a “resetting” of the TV franchise to follow up with a new series in the future Trek that his would have ended on.

    So this will tank, and CBS will put Trek on TV on ice for 10 more years, and act like it’s because people don’t want Trek. Oh well.

    • SpaceCadet

      “So this will tank…” Uh huh. Okay, thanks for revealing the future to myself and millions of others that were so excitedly going to turn in to actually watch it first and give it a chance. But I guess we won’t need to now because surely we can trust your insider knowledge.

      • Karl

        Stop bullying people who disagree with your rose tinted view of STD

        • iMike

          It’s called DSC, not STD. And no one is bullying you, people are just reacting to your negative attitude.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Exactly!

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          So you get a free pass with all of your nasty sarcasm, but when others use sarcasm on your posts, you whine about being bullied? That is weak, dude! just saying…. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/619b36fa1e30a1eb933bf468802273e23c01df52d2a408bf04275a6d7ba6a016.jpg

          • Karl

            Keep on, you’re doing well today

        • TUP

          hahahahahah stop bullying…from KARL!! hahahahahaha

    • Karl

      Agreed.

  • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

    Spin doctors to the bridge…

  • Tod Abbott

    As much as I loved the idea of an anthology series of different eras, crews, etc. (especially if it included some non-starfleet stories), it always struck me as very expensive. Think of all the effort and expense that went into developing Discovery just to the point where they could start filming, and imagine having to do a good portion of that every season. Sure, using eras we’d already seen might cut down on some of the design effort, but everything would still need to be built, and no doubt design tweaks would be called for.

    • Blimpboy

      George Lucas proved you don’t need any sets to make a TV series (Young Indiana Jones) or film (Star Wars I to III). Sanctuary I believe was mostly rendered digitally too. An anthology opens up so many more opportunities to explore casting and time periods. If one gets a good response, spin it off. Ala Police Woman from Police Story. Star Trek is big enough for two concurrent shows on TV again. Learn from NCIS on that one! Remember all the Sci-fi we had in the 90’s?

  • October_1985

    Fuller’s idea of an anthology show could have been great. Also, TOS colors for the uniforms!

    • M33

      At least we finally know where these “new” uniforms came from–the studio!

  • Vger64

    In the trailer it looks like Yeoh and her ship will be casualties

  • Locutus

    As a diehard fan, I wish the studio had been able to meet Bryan Fuller’s expectations. I had been hoping for an anthology series, so I am dissapointed we are probably not getting one. I’m sure I would have loved Fuller’s intended iteration of Star Trek.

    Nonetheless, I am optomistic that I will still love Star Trek: Discovery. I understand the studio’s reluctance to accomodate everything he wanted, even if I think Fuller could have pulled it off.

    • Karl

      CBS have killed STD. There is zero support for it outside of die hard TOS fanboys. It’s toast, and that’s a good thing. They would do well by selling the franchise to people who will do it justice.
      They couldn’t organise sex in a brothel, but they will sure as hell make sure someone else pays for their party girl before trying.

      • Locutus

        I would hardly call myself a diehard TOS fanboy. I grew up with TNG. DS9 is my favorite Star Trek series. Yet I will still give it a try. I am
        not alone. It is a ridiculous overstatement to say the show has ZERO support aside from TOS diehards.

        • DC Forever

          He’s not worth it – he’s a troll, and not even a very good one at that.

        • Jeff O’Connor

          Same. TOS might be my least favorite of the five. (I still like it.) I grew up on the TNG era. DS9’s my favorite, for sure. And I look forward to Discovery.

        • M33

          True. Diehard TOS fan here. And love all the rest, too.
          I have my concerns about Discovery’s approach, but I will give it a fair shake, just like I did with Enterprise.
          I may hate it.
          I may love it.
          I may like it.
          But I will be openminded enough to try.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            And THAT’s all I’ve been saying. I’m in total agreement, M33. There’s this inordinate amount of gloom and doom and people are treating this like its the end of the world. I like a lot of what I’m seeing and there are some big things I don’t. I choose not to focus on them. It doesn’t make me a shill (I know YOU aren’t saying that, M… lol!). It doesn’t make me “part of the problem.” It makes me a Trek fan willing to give the new incarnation a chance.

            Oh and my fan cred? I grew up in the 80s and 90s with TNG and DS9. I watched TOS in repeats but at the time, I didn’t like TOS then. I never particularly liked VOY. I watched ENT, and it was okay, but not great. Now I find TNG to be old and dated and VOY to be even worse. I fear going back to watching DS9 because I loved it so much then. I honestly prefer TOS now. To me, it’s timeless. And yeah, they’re not perfect, but I like the Kelvin films too. Although, I respect and appreciate the fact that there are fans of every other series. I don’t try to push my viewpoint on everyone.

            All I’ve EVER suggested is that people give DSC a fair shake before they completely dismiss it. If they can’t do it? Fine. If they end up hating it? That’s okay too. Differing opinions is fine. But I’ve never understood hate watching. But if that gets you by? Cool, but expect people to be puzzled and to challenge you on it.

            Sorry, M33, that wasn’t directed towards you, just, ya know… generally… lol. Rant over.

          • M33

            LOL
            No worries!
            I found TNG to be very stitled nowadays and hasn’t aged well, whereas you are right, TOS despite its 60s trappings feels timeless, and storyflow is still excellent.
            DS9 is the best of the bunch because it allowed a matured version of Trek to be faced with its own utopian values against the backdrop of interacting with cultures that do not share those values, and how does one live in a society that is actually multicultural, not intercultural like the Federation?
            Brilliant stuff.
            I hope Discovery can acheive this point, but we will have to wait and see.
            And hey, if they go full jog and throw out most of the preexisting visual continuity, I’ll just consider it AlternaTrek (Timeline 3.0).
            Hey, AlternaTrek might have some good stories, too!
            So… a win-win!

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Lol… AlternaTrek! Love it!

          • M33

            Oh and give DS9 a rewatch!
            We just watched the whole series recently.
            It has aged the best of the modern series, especially when the storytelling becomes more serialized. It holds up really really well.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Admittedly, I tried to start a little while back. “Emissary?” Yuck. I don’t think I got through it. But I’ll try again. I’m super stoked for the coming documentary!

          • M33

            Emissary is a weak start.
            Get through the first season. The second half of S1 gets better.
            Season 3 and 4 is when it all really starts picking up, but there is a lot of great character development through seasons 1-3 that enhances the rest of the seasons.
            Well… in my opinion anyway!

            Yep! Looking forward to the documentary, too!
            Contributed to it, too!

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            That was one of the things I remembered about it. I watched it when the DVDs first came out but I don’t think I’ve revisited since. But there’s some incredible character development!

            Alright, I think you’ve convinced me. I’ve been looking for a show to rewatch. I had been considering LOST but that probably can wait.

          • Karl

            There comes a point at which nothing remotely interesting has come out of all these press releases, trailers, photoshoots etc, that one just gives up on anything positive coming of it. You people who can’t grasp that have a real hard time understanding the overall reception of STD, like you’re living in a bubble.

          • M33
          • Your Worst Nightmare

            “You people…”
            Stop, Karl. Just stop. You don’t want to watch. Fine. You have made that abundantly clear. Many here are willing to give it a chance. Might we be disappointed? Absolutely! But that’s on us. We don’t need saving. And even if we did, YOU are not the one to do it. This may be a surprise but at the end of the day, it is JUST
            a TV show. Entertainment. If we’re not entertained, we’ll tune out. You don’t want to come along on the ride? That’s your prerogative. Stop trying to kill the joy of the people who do.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            “You people”

            Seriously, dude?

          • TUP

            Karl, you DO realise you’re projecting your OPINION onto everyone else?

            Its just as easy for people to wonder why you cant see reality. How does that feel? Jerk.

        • Karl

          You’re gonna buy a netflix subscription just to see if the pilot is any good? Wow that’s quite something.

          • Locutus

            Seeing as how the pilot will be aired on the CBS television network, I won’t need to subscribe just to see that. Yes, I probably will subscribe for the month of November or December to CBS streaming and watch the first half of the season that month. I will also see how folks react to the first few episodes in October.

          • Karl

            Yet the international viewers who, via netflix are funding the entire production budget get diddly squat without coughing up a month’s subscription in advance.
            What do you say to those people who are angered at having to pay for a subscription in the first place? Torrent it?

            What about kids who’s family don’t have netflix? How are they supposed to view it?

            People without a fast internet connection, what’s their option?

            People who don’t have debit/credit cards also excluded?

          • Locutus

            First, to the international viewer I would say “lucky you.” I’d LOVE if Star Trek: Discovery was on Netflix in the U.S. Better than shelling out for CBS’s sub-par streaming service. To the rest I say, “tough luck.” It sucks, but that’s capitalism for you. We don’t live in Star Trek’s money-free utopia yet. Far from it!

          • Karl

            Aside from the movies, I’ve never paid a dime to watch Star Trek. Have you?
            They seem to think they are space action game of thrones, which is a little presumptuous with so much hatred for the damned thing.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Do you pay for cable? If so, you paid for Star Trek. If not, good on you!

            “So much hatred for the damned thing.” Ya know, I don’t see a lot of hate. I see some online hate, but its no different than anything else out there. Not every Star Trek fan discusses it on the Internet. And not all of those online probably travel in your circles. I’ve seen a lot of both very positive and very negative reaction online. There are millions of Star Trek fans. Before you suggest otherwise, I’m not saying you can’t dislike it. I’m just trying to put things into perspective.

          • Locutus

            I have a Netflix subscription and view Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Enterprise using that. I also have purchased the TOS and TNG remastered blu-rays, so yes, I have paid to watch Star Trek television series. It has been worth it to me to be able to revisit any episode whenever I want.

            Of course, I agree with you and other fans that would prefer to watch it on TV for free. That said, I think the series has a better chance of sticking around because it is the flagship of CBS’s streaming service. I have mixed feelings. I would have loved it to land on Netflix, but that’s basically because I am already subscribed to that service. And believe it or not, there are plenty of people that hate Game of Thrones too. I think Star Trek: Discovery can find an audience even if you or some other fans might hate it. A lot of Star Trek fans hated TNG when it came out too, and DS9.

          • TUP

            Yes. CBS are vile and they hate Trek fans. If they loved us, they’d send us all the entire series on Blu Ray for free today.

          • TUP

            How have you never paid a dime? Wathed Star Trek on someone else’s TV using someone else’s cable, powered by someone else’s power in someone else’s home?

            Something is free just because you already pay for it.

          • TUP

            Im assuming you dont watch Netflix. You dont have to cough up anything to watch. And I dont believe you need a credit card either.

            So you hjate Discovery and that is now manifesting in overwhelming concern for the children of international viewers? lol

            WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN! Netflix doesnt seem concerned, why should you?

          • Jaro Stun

            stop embarassing yourself.
            is it you who does not have the credit card?

          • TIG1701

            Wow life can be tough kid. Asking someone to pay a whopping $9 for a month. Yeah, why does god hate you?

            And for people who don’t have Netflix, thats like saying for people who don’t have a cable channel and can’t watch a show. Tough beans.

          • TUP

            Karl doesnt let facts get in the way of a good rant.

      • TUP

        That’s a funny opinion. Crazy, irrational, no basis in reality. But truly hilarious. Thank you for the laughs.

        Imagine posting on a Trek fan forum and throwing “Fanboy” around like an insult. Shameful.

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          Yea, dude is wack! Very funny stuff! LOL

        • Jaro Stun

          seems to be that especially the overtly supporting TOS fanboys he addresses are those who complain the most… or did I miss something here lol???

    • Jaro Stun

      no he could not and he has proven it. if he could we would already be watching season 1 of STD.

      being a visionary or SJW diversity crusader does not necessarily make him a good producer/manager. seems he significantly miscalculated and underestimated the differences in producing a low-budget / low-sfx show and a top of the pack highly technically advanced series

  • Donnaghayes

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  • Perplexum

    That sounds way more exciting than what I heard about the Discovery we are getting now so far.

  • Barak Aslani

    Nobody I speak to wants another prequel. I was speaking to some friends yesterday who have a passing interest in Trek but wouldn’t consider themselves Trekkies by any means, when I explained Star Trek: Discovery was a prequel, they all pulled horrified faces and said “again?”. Here’s my theory… Simon Fuller’s “Anthology” idea was the first real compromise. The man never wanted an anthology series, it was simply the only way he could deliver some post-Voyager Trek. Both the film and TV studio do not want to expand Trek’s legacy and enrich it… they want to make cold, hard money from it… and their misguided belief is, ‘The closer we set our story to Kirk and Spock time’, the more relatable it will be to the average Joe on the street’. They wants to squeeze greenbacks from the phrase Star Trek, with no concern for what came before or would make sense for the Star Trek community. The tragedy is, the average Joe on the street cares little about Harry Mudd. They have heavily retconned design and tech and style, so our community can’t even enjoy this has a nostalgic romp through Trek history. They are unnecessarily reinventing the wheel, with contrived sexy lighting and over-zealous blue grading and trying in vain to appeal to a new audience that doesn’t care. They assume Star Trek fans (and I mean, real Star Trek fans, not the emperor’s new clothing crowd who pretend JJ-verse has any integrity or merit) will continue to be loyal. Show CBS you won’t be loyal. Show CBS what we need from Trek. NOBODY pay for it. Or watch it on Netflix… Curb the temptation to support it in anyway which will make them money or look like it’s popular. Let it die a quick death and maybe in 10 years, somebody will step up to the plate and deliver what we want.

    • Your Worst Nightmare

      That’s great. But let me suggest there’s no way shape or form that you speak to every Trek fan out there. Most of them don’t care. The die-hard online fanatical group, which is certainly a subset of the larger Trek fan base are the only ones who are making waves.

      And also, yes, this is about a new audience. Of course it is! Has it occurred to the vocal minority that perhaps the Star Trek fan base is dying? People who watched TOS first-run are at least in their mid-50s. I grew up in the TNG era and I’m in my late 30s.

      We don’t matter. To me, that’s okay! If I get some entertainment out of Discovery, awesome! If not, that’s okay too.

      Hollywood aims for viewers 18-35. It doesn’t always work this way, no. But obviously, this is what CBS is doing for Discovery. And at the end of the day, it’s okay to just stop complaining, stop watching and moving on to other things. It really is.

    • Eskay

      Well it’s too bad then that 95% of the people “you write to” here completely disagree with you. Lol

      You must have a lot of “yes man” friends who are probably afraid to challenge you given you are such a zealot in your Trek views. Or maybe they are your employees? 😉

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        LOL. You may be onto something there, friend.

      • Pedro Ferreira

        I know of hardly anyone who is looking forward to this. Just look at the comments page of any other media page.

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          You means the ones where the same 4 or 5 guys post like 20 times each per day to give the illusion that ton’s of people must not be looking forward to this show? lol

          It’s all smoke and mirrors. A small percentage of fans post a shitload of times. Big deal!

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Nah it’s definitely more than 4 or 5 people.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            OK, 7 or 8. 😉

          • Pedro Ferreira

            More than that. A lot more.

          • DC Forever

            I think Oracle’s first post was closer to reality. 4 or 5 per site who post every day maybe.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Okay since you’re suffering from some ignorance here here’s a post about the new Khan series and notice it ain’t just me complaining.

            http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-trek/51109/star-trek-wrath-of-khan-tv-series-in-the-works

            That is just for the Khan series alone! Hmmm, looks more than 4 or 5 people eh? So please stop acting ignorant thank you.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Gentlemen, let’s all try to get along here.

            I am saying 7 or 8, Pedro is saying “a lot more,” and DC is saying 4 or 5.

            I propose a compromise — 12 people!

            😉

          • Pedro Ferreira

            At the end of the day it’s what you take from the evidence I’ve provided. I only ask you actually look at what I provided instead of immediately jumping to “Pedro is wrong about everything” routine a couple of people here love to do. I’m not singling you out Oracle, I mean everyone so don’t worry.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Sure Pedro, you make a good point. I agree

            But you know, and I mean this sincerely, you shouldn’t really act like you know Discovery stinks until you at least see the first episode. I think that is why some people jump you here — it seems to them like, “how can this dude say that when we haven’t seen anything beyond 90 seconds which really didn’t give much away.” So you unintentionally are pissing a lot of people off — it’s human nature to not pre-judge things.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Yeah I suppose we should wait.

    • TUP

      Then you’re only speaking to your own reflection. Stop making your opinion sound way more meaningful than it is through lies and hyperbole.

    • Pedro Ferreira

      Simon Fuller’s anthology series? Would the Spice Girls be part of canon then? Don’t worry we all make typos like that.

    • TIG1701

      All people have to do is just read the youtube comments for both of the trailers. And you don’t have to search any of them out. Just read the front page of both of them and the number one complaint other than it just looks too different is that its a prequel. It doesnt mean everyone is upset about it but when you go to multiple Trek boards and this is the complaint that pops up over and over again that should tell you most fans just don’t want another prequel…especially after Enterprise. I don’t understand why they are so convinced they have to appease near senior citizens? Star Trek thrived for decades post TOS. It did just fine. It will do fine again if they get people who can have a real vision of it and not just cash grabs like JJ verse.

  • Orumus

    “I couldn’t stop thinking about how many black people were inspired by seeing Nichelle Nichols on the bridge of a ship,” Fuller says. “I couldn’t stop thinking about how many Asian people were inspired by seeing George Takei and feeling that gave them hope for their place in the future. I wanted to be part of that representation for a new era.””

    First off thinking people can only be inspired by someone who is the same race and sex as them is stupid and regressive, secondly what about Ben Sisko? He wasn’t just a captain of a ship but the commander of the most important space station in the Federation and during a war for the very survival of the Federation for all intents and purposes he led the entire Federation effort.

    When the story and characters are compelling that is what inspires. Star Trek inspires because it goes beyond our current petty differences and shows us a future where humanity has gone past the identity politics and come together as the Human race for all our benefit. That’s what I love about Trek.

    • TUP

      I think you’re missing the point. It was Martin Luther King that told Nichols she was an inspiration to black youth. What does he know.

      • Orumus

        He told her that because of the boundaries she was pushing that existed at the time. She worked hard to get where she was and took a lot of flak and hatred and threats and still persisted in her career. She was a role model not because she had the right skin color but because she worked hard and didn’t let the industry, the true haters and other obstacles stop her. There was no diversity initiatives she got handed nothing and that is what MLK wanted. He didn’t want blacks to depend on the generosity of others for success he wanted them to have the same opportunities and then to succeed on their merits just like everyone else. Putting people with particular skin colors on TV for the reason of inspiring like skin colored people is shallow and is against what MLK spoke about at length. There should be no diversity initiatives there should only be the best person for the job period based on merit. That is actual equality of opportunity. And that was what the civil rights movement was all about.

        You might want to read a few books on MLK so you understand the man. The publicized and edited clips and blurbs on him are spun left or right depending on who is invoking his name in their defense and hardly do him or the Civil Rights cause justice.

        • TUP

          Ummmm yeah, I was being sarcastic. We agree.

    • Pedro Ferreira

      In Fuller’s eyes he probably thinks DS9 was a success JUST because Ben Sisko is black.

  • The Chadwick

    Im glad that EW did this digging and that CBS isn’t hiding any of the fact by not letting EW publish this, kudos to CBS for that.

    I am a little pissed to hear some of Bryan’s brilliant ideas were rejected, like the anthology, deeper allegory and the event tri colour uniforms.

    Bryan Fuller, Bryan Singer, and Ron Moore are the three more brilliant and capable people to lead a Star Trek series BAR NONE!

    We all know Star Trek is about moving forward yet CBS and Paramount want to retread over eras that have been explored. There are plenty of years after Archer and before Kirk to explore. After Kirk and before Picard to explore. And everything post Voyager. Yet CBS and Paramount are hell bent on remaining in this era. Why? Because Kirk and Spock are synonymous with Star Trek and even non Trekkies know who they are. Great marketing idea to bring in more people more money, but thats not always what is best for Star Trek. At the very least I hope it does bring in new fans and that they go back and explore older Star Trek.

    Regardless, I am beyond excited for Discovery as well as another Kelvin movie. We can only hope Discovery does well enough, they bring back Bryan and allow him to realize his dream of an anthology series which will eventually end up post Voyager. That it does well enough to bring in new fans who will explore past Star Trek.

    Listen my fellow Trekkies, Bashing it, hating it, putting it down is not going to help any of us or the franchise we love so much. And I understand many of us are so upset because we love it so much. The bitter fact that the actors and producers have already had to address hatred and bigotry before the show even airs is a sad state of affairs. We’re better than this and we have to show the world that. Even if you mostly hate Discovery’s looks and what it is, there has to be at the very least one aspect of it you like, focus on that and expand the support.

    Star Trek needs our enthusiasm and support now more than ever.

    • M33

      Chadwick, what has some of us thrown for a loop is the unprecedented choice to disregard continuity that was so carefully and lovingly handled by the producers of TNG, DS9, and eventually Enterprise. It is one thing to change a look and style for an era we have never seen like every new series has done, but to change everything about a predefined era is unlike any choice ANY producers have made, including the Abrams films.
      At least Abrams was smart enough to avoid the continuity issues by setting his stories in an alternate timeline where they could freely redefine the TOS era, honoring what came before.
      There is no honoring here. It is simply “we don’t give a damn, and if you don’t like that, well, too bad.”
      It is just such a weird tack to take, especially when they are so set on having this be Pike’s predefined era.
      Maybe they can make it all work, but we won’t know for sure until we see the final product.
      Those of us concerned about continuity have justified concerns.

      • TUP

        Those lovingly images were small, not a series and even if they wanted to update them, they hardly had money to do so.

        Doing a TOS series that looks like TOS was a non-starter. People have to accept it even if they dont understand it.

    • TUP

      You had me intrigued until the ridiculous argument that unfortunately crops up occasionally that “Star Trek is about moving forward and that means literally moving forward in time”.

      Not only does “Moving Forward” make little sense, the idea that means literally through time is laughable.

      We have never had a series set in this time period so not a retread.

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      “Listen my fellow Trekkies, Bashing it, hating it, putting it down is not going to help any of us or the franchise we love so much. And I understand many of us are so upset because we love it so much. The bitter fact that the actors and producers have already had to address hatred and bigotry before the show even airs is a sad state of affairs. We’re better than this and we have to show the world that. Even if you mostly hate Discovery’s looks and what it is, there has to be at the very least one aspect of it you like, focus on that and expand the support.”

      I AGREE 100% Nice way to summarize all of this — thanks!

  • Wildcat30

    Aren’t there as many “TNG fanboys” as “TOS fanboys” at this point? A lot of folks I know that are casual fans these days started their Star Trek experience with TNG. I love both eras.

    I’m calm in this storm of criticism since I remember TNG’s introduction in the late 80s. Looked totally different and fans threatened to revolt.

    I think CBS does want to keep their new show as part of the Star Trek universe they own (the TV shows). Nothing wrong with that. I do think if Discovery does well, they’ll expand to other shows. As others mentioned, how many CSIs and NCISs have we had? CBS has an entire digital network they need to fill with content. What better premium content than Star Trek?

    They can only re-master the old shows so many times. They need new content and the franchise needs to be reinvigorated for a new generation of fan.

    I’m excited about Discovery.

    • Your Worst Nightmare

      Before it came out, people whined about TMP because they changed the ship…
      Before it came out, people whined about TWOK because they heard Spock would die…
      Before it came out, people whined about TNG because no Kirk and Spock…
      Before it came out, people whined about DS9 because it wasn’t on a ship…
      Before it came out, people whined about VOY because the captain was a woman…
      Before it came out, people whined about ENT because it was a prequel…

      Look, I’m not saying people can’t dislike what they see. I get it. There are things I don’t particularly like about what I see in DSC. But people are fans of every thing I listed above even though a lot of them were probably against it at first. As a fandom, we’re resistant to change. I get that. But all I’ve ever suggested is just to give it a chance and see what happens. People may be surprised! And they may not and they may have it. All I’m saying is: Give it a chance before declaring it the worst thing EVER.

      • Karl

        retconning what’s come before it is crossing the line.

        • Your Worst Nightmare

          That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it.

          • Karl

            And it’s correct.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            No. Opinions are subjective.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Absolutely!

          • TUP

            A lot of people confuse their opinion with fact and confuse fact with opinion.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            That too is your opinion and your entitled to it.

            Star Trek has retconned much of what’s come before. It hasn’t been a problem before today. For me, Star Trek is just a TV show. I personally don’t care what they do as long as it’s entertaining and makes sense in the overall story. A little thing that can be explained away is fine. Why? Because it’s happened time and time again. And life is way too short to get caught up in such minutiae… over a TV series.

            You disagree with my perspective. Despite what you suggest, that doesn’t make either of us right or wrong. It makes us disagree. And that’s okay!

          • TUP

            It is actually incorrect. In fact, your opinion isnt a “right” or “wrong” scenario. But its still wrong. lol

          • Pedro Ferreira

            That’s your opinion. Ha, ha!

      • Pedro Ferreira

        I don’t remember anyone whining about Voyager having a female captain.

        • Your Worst Nightmare

          Reaaaaally? I saw some of it. Not a lot but enough to make me, at 14yo, go, “Oh, come on!”

          Maybe it was just in my local online fandom back in the days of BBSing.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            I was almost the same age as you but I don’t remember anything bad. Remember the Internet was less common in those days.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            There were regional networks. I was on one out of Peoria, IL.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            In Europe never heard a word about it.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            I don’t know what to tell you. The BBS I visited was local to that area and had their own message boards for Star Trek. I didn’t really use Usenet. Like I suggested, it’s possible it was a very localized complaint from just a loud fanboy or two. I really can’t recall one specific online conversation from twenty some odd years ago.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Oh no, I’m sure you’re right. I just never encountered that back in the day.

          • Your Worst Nightmare

            Cool, yo.

        • TIG1701

          Voyager was the fist Star Trek I watched. And I remember going to read up on it (I started watching it in 3rd season) and yeah there were plenty of articles about it and how people didn’t like it. There is even a youtube video with Garret Wang who said Paramount got death threats about it. So yeah it was real. It just settled down once they showed her and she was accepted after they got use to her.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            The Internet sure has magnified everyone’s complaints now which is why we have SJWs and snowflakes. At the time I welcomed the casting because it was something new. The only complaint I ever heard about Captain Janeway was that she was too self righteous and patronising which I found was only partly true.

          • kadajawi

            Janeway was also written inconsistently, made bad decisions, …

            However those things had nothing to do with her being a woman, but with the writers being lazy/not that good/not paying enough attention.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            I think as soon as Jeri Taylor and Lisa Klink left it all went downhill.

    • TUP

      I vaguely remember people hating TNG. Now everyone loves it.

      • Pedro Ferreira

        Yeah like back in 1987. Some years have passed since then, thirty actually.

        • TUP

          Exactly. There was irrational hatred of TNG. Just as there is irrational hatred of Discovery. People dislike change. if Discovery is good, it will be as referred as the other series’…well hopefully more so than VOY and Enterprise (and they both still have their fans).

          • Jaro Stun

            i so hope this will be the case. lets see

            i remember ENT getting the same treatment, and maybe while not top of the pack, for me it still holds out

          • TUP

            Enterprise is a good example because it had many of the same complains that Discovery gets. That it looked too advanced and violated canon etc.

            But in the end, as boring as it was, it wasnt overly offensive of a series, we got used to the visuals and now they feel fine.

            In all the discussion of the Discovery tech being too advanced, when people say it looks fine as an advancement over Enterprise, no one says “yeah but Enterprise was all wrong”. Because they’re used to it now.

            Discovery could resolve this by featuring a Constitution Class ship. Keep the general design but modernize it with more detail. Update the bridge with flat screens, more detail, better construction and some subtle additions of items found on the “new” bridge’s (such as the touch screen arm rest controls).

            People will accept they co-exist.

          • Jaro Stun

            that would be actually a great idea. to create a less kelvinized Constitution and yeah, openly declare it a 2.0 visual. If its subtle enough, but modern, that would be fantastic

          • TUP

            Im sure it was these boards that I saw a link to a very brief clip of the original Enterprise on youtube where someone had updated the bridge with flat screens. And just that one change alone made a big difference in making the 60’s era visuals look more modern.

            I cant find the clip anymore though.

          • Jaro Stun

            yeah I think its getting there…

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXa0cfaTlfk

          • TUP

            Those Koerner designs are pretty good. Not perfect, but good.

            And lo and behold, I found the clip I was thinking of:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCPdmOuzYrM

          • Jaro Stun

            with the right production values, this would actually be a nice approach to show TOS bridge.

            looking at those blue touchscreens though – i have a slight feeling this is where Discovery sets are heading.
            They look distinctictively more TOS-ized than the Shenzhou

          • TUP

            I think that clip would fit in fine now. Obviously, a greater budget for the effects, sets etc, but thats what they should be thinking when it comes time to update the Constitution class

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Very cool!

          • TUP
          • Pedro Ferreira

            The thing about TNG is that when it came out it looked refreshing and optimistic, Discovery looks like any other sci-fi show or film and doesn’t look optimistic at all. It doesn’t seem very exciting either. Sure there’s action but so did the reboot movies and I wouldn’t consider those films I’d go back and watch apart from maybe Beyond.

          • TUP

            So the people who all hated tng irrationally were wrong but the people who irrationally hate discovery are right. Okay. Gotcha

          • Pedro Ferreira

            No that makes no sense actually.

          • TUP

            There you go again. Being argumentative for the sake of argument.

            We both agreed people hated TNG at first and both agreed that most of those people came to love it.

            But agreement isnt good for you so you further argue the difference between TNG haters and Discovery haters as if the Discovery haters, who havent seen the show, have more credibility. They dont. They havent seen the show.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Again as mentioned above TNG felt fresh and exciting, Discovery doesn’t. The best thing I can say about Discovery is that it looks like any other generic modern sci-fi show. If that’s what they were aiming for then they succeeded.

          • TUP

            Which has nothing to do with OP’s point that people also had an irrational hate for TNG and then got over it.

            You’re opinion is “well, we were silly for hating TNG but we have good reason to hate Discovery” doesnt hold water. You havent seen the show.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            It has absolutely everything to do with the show. I’ve given reasons why one brought more than the other. Are you so single minded you can’t accept a reason or an idea from someone because it conflicts with your own?

          • TUP

            You’re incredibly anal. You interject a discussion simply to pick an argument because you crave the drama.

            I doubt you were old enough to remember when TNG debuted (at least you dont act like it).

            And irrational hate of TNG is a perfect illustration of the silliness of the irrational hate of Discovery.

            If you dont see the comparison, that’s ok. Perhaps you can broaden your mind to allow for other perspectives, kid.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Well ‘grandad’ I do in fact remember the early years of TNG and all it takes is to look at promotional material advertised at the time and compare to what we have now for Discovery. I’m not relying on memories, there’s visual proof out there if you actually bother to YT it but maybe this is beyond your reasoning?

          • TUP

            The tone of the series has nothing remotely to do with the pint the OP made. You stuck your nose into a discussion to twist it to fit your overwhelming need to argue with everyone. Drama Queen. Geeez

            *rolls eyes*

          • Pedro Ferreira

            I brought up an obvious comparison and you’ve ignored it because you don’t like that it’s right.

          • TUP

            You clearly don’t understand. Just move on then.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            No you are the one who has trouble understanding because you don’t want to understand!

          • TUP

            Ive asked you to stop spamming me with off topic argumentative nonsense. Please stop. I do not want to block anyone.

            MODS: My apologies for this discussion going sideways. Im trying!

          • Pedro Ferreira

            I think you need to apologise to everybody else as well for being disruptive and not allowing people to have an opinion.

          • TUP

            Can we please do something about this guy? he’s ruining these threads.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            No, you are judging by the way you respond to people here.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Give all you have to go by on DSC is a 90-second trailer, I am forced to agree with TUP here — your view on DSC seems way premature, and yes, hypocritical, given you claim the same argument in favor of giving early TNG seasons a free pass.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            But early seasons of TNG have more to them than this so what’s the issue? Also why would you support that guy?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            “But early seasons of TNG have more to them than this so what’s the issue?”

            That is impossible to know, as we have not seen the first season of DSC yet. How can you possibly say that with a straight face, dude? Come on, man!

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Just to clarify I’m not comparing the early seasons to Star Trek Discovery for the reason you said. I’m saying the publicity and promotion for TNG’s first season was more exciting at least to me than Discovery which just looks like any other sci-fi show.

          • DC Forever

            Yea, but that comparison is foolish – you are comparing 25 episodes to a 90 second trailer.

            You’d be laughed out of a High School Debate Class if you argued that.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Someone hasn’t read my previous comment have they? No well just attack someone we hold a grudge against because only our opinion matters eh?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You do make a good point here. But you also must admit, while TNG did look refreshing and optimistic, the first two seasons were pretty weak, with a lot of boring episodes.

          • TIG1701

            Yeah, but the show went on for 7 seasons. Lots of TV shows start out bad but improve. Plenty of shows start off good and get bad. I don’t understand why everyone point this out about TNG, like it was some rare thing. It was a new experiment, it took time to find its sea legs, you can say that for tons of shows. And it sounded like it was bad ironically because of Gene Roddenberry. If you watch Chaos on the Bridge, he’s a big reason why it was so bad, he was a total nut job who couldn’t keep staff and constantly changing things. On top of that he was the guy who came up with all his crazy utopian ideas no one else ever agreed with and why they were torpedoed once he was finally given the boot.

            Not surprising the show got better once he and his minions left it. Sort of like the films.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Agreed. Which is another reason why fans today should be a little more patient on DSC.

          • DC Forever

            Yes!

          • Pedro Ferreira

            The first two seasons get a lot of unnecessary flack, I’ve always felt Season 7 was the worst season. Consider this: I’m an 8 year old in 1990 watching Encounter at Farpoint for the first time. It’s the first full 45 min live action TV series I’ve sat down to watch all the way through. If Season 1 was so bad, if it didn’t engage with me on any level do you really think I would have got to Season 2? The whole show was refreshing, everything was new, the possibilities endless and as a child Wesley was someone to look up to. The same can’t be said for Discovery because it doesn’t look fresh or exciting.

          • DC Forever

            The first two seasons of TNG sucked; there is no getting around that. In today’s environment, TNG would have been cancelled after season 2.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            That’s your opinion but as I said before if it sucked so much I wouldn’t have watched past Season 1. The first season was amazing to me and I loved the stories, I thought most of them were great. Now when I look back the dialogue is stilted at times but for the most part it’s all still pretty good stuff. In comparison Season 7 ‘sucked’ and Season 6 was lacking somewhat as well.

          • DC Forever

            I clearly said “in today’s environment”

          • Pedro Ferreira

            And today it looks better than most TV that’s on.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Yea, I doubt TNG would have been renewed for Season 3 in today’s TV world.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            A lot of boring episodes with a few OK ones. The reason I stuck with it was because I was patient and wanted to give it more time given it was the first new live action Star Trek series in nearly two decades. But those seasons are very weak.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            As I said I consider Season 7 the weakest with Season 6 being a runner up. Season 1 felt fresh and I only consider a handful of episodes from the first and second to be either boring or poor which is pretty good.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But the general consensus among fans is that Seasons 1, 2 and 7 are the weakest — and I agree with you about Season 7.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Well I feel there’s too many good things about the first two seasons to call them weak. As for general consensus I just give my opinion, I don’t listen to general consensus or hop on the bandwagon. That’s just me though.

    • kadajawi

      CBS doesn’t exactly produce quality content though. I can’t find anything recent on CBS that I want to watch.

      Also, yes, TNG had a different ship and design, but it made sense in the universe. I don’t mind, or even like change, if it makes sense in the universe. Even JJ Trek gave an in universe reason why everything looks different. I hope it’s also true of DSC, but I doubt it.

  • DS9 is King

    Every check this out, Star Trek Discovery: To Be Replaced by Nicholas Meyer’s New Series?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQcLLfzzKWA

  • feenix219

    An anthology show in the Prime universe would have been amazing, and he would have stuck to canon with the uniforms??? I was already iffy on Discovery, but after hearing the original pitch….. that just pisses me off…..

    PASS.

    • TUP

      No, it sounds like the uniforms were similar but different. Even just adding delta’s to the material as the films did is not canon. Now, I dont care about that aspect, but you cant use “similar but different” as an argument about canon.

  • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

    Spin doctors to the bridge…

    With this timing, this is clearly a PR puff piece.

  • The Science Fiction Oracle

    Brian Fuller’s first, best destiny is the horror-fantasy genre.

    • Locutus

      Wouldn’t mind a bit more horror in Star Trek. Space can be a creepy place.

      • PJ

        I’d rather they didn’t. Brannon Braga destroyed Voyager and season 7 of TNG with all that crap.

        • M33

          I can live without ever seeing Vulcan Space-Zombies again…

        • Locutus

          I can understand that. I certainly would not want it to be the tone of the entire series, but some episodes like that have worked before, like “Schisms.” While not a fantastic episode to say the least, “Genesis” is also a guilty pleasure with horror elements. Sprinkled here and there, it can be fun.

        • Pedro Ferreira

          Braga does love his psychological horror doesn’t he?

          • PJ

            That and boffing his female leads. I remember on one of those behind the scenes documentaries he was being interviewed in his office with a huge lamp in the shape of a naked woman’s body in the background. What a scuzzball. Skin and cheap tricks like horror and time travel are about his level. Glad he’s now going to be working on ‘The Orville’. Comedy sci fi parody is what he has unintentionally producing for decades.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            I have to give Braga credit though for wanting more episodic writing as he admitted on his Cause and Effect commentary for TNG.

  • PJ

    Fuller’s ego sounds like it was out of control to me. Look at the pics of him in his Voyager days – he looked like a nice average looking guy. Now he resembles a psychedelic Santa Claus. Turned Trek into an anthology concept would have destroyed one of its key tenets: the crew as a family who viewers could develop some affection for. No chance of that with a new scenario every year.

    • TUP

      The anthology idea has merit. I used to think a Temporal Cop show would be great.

      But my Goodness, I can see why CBS would be dubious. If they are spending $8million per episode, PLUS how much for all the initial set building, SFX etc, do change all that every season is big.

      There are ways to get around it. If the ship remained the same through all seasons, they could just re-dress it, age it etc in most cases with larger redesigns later.

      The impression I get is, Burnham would have been the constant character. Fuller hedged when talking about her. I think he referred to her as not quite human or something. Is she Vulcan? Perhaps made to look human?

      Plus, if they were going from Discovery to “Kirk’s era”, thats only ten years so you could use some of the Season 1 characters in Season 2.

      But I agree, a complete turn over every season has great risks.

    • Pedro Ferreira

      He was never that great on Voyager anyway.

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        Agreed!

        • Pedro Ferreira

          I always found The Raven for example far too plodding and padded. It’s quite an overrated story.

      • PJ

        No he wasn’t, was he.

        • Pedro Ferreira

          He did a handful of good episodes but most were predictable or uninspiring for the later seasons of Voyager.

  • Zarm

    So basically, CBS was advertising with “Look, we’ve got THE Brian Fuller running things, so you know it’s gonna be good!” and behind the scenes at the same time were grumbling “Brain Fuller, heh- what does HE know?”

    Seems… hypocritical.

    Also, more meaningful, allegorcial storyline, TOS-style uniforms, anthology… can’t say what his stance woulda been on Klingon makeup, but otherwise, it seems like all the main fan concerns/dislikes about the aesthetics and apparent direction of the show, based on the trailers, would have been addressed already in Fuller’s version…

    • DC Forever

      You mean your concerns. You do not speak for all Star Trek fans.

      • Zarm

        No, I mean many of the concerns that I see frequently cited among all who are concerned about the show- here, at Trekmovie, Ex Astris Scientia, and other sites.

        The concerns that crop up whenever concerns DO crop up, if you will. Which is not to say that everyone *is* concerned about the show, merely that certain concerns or complaints are common among all those who are less positively inclined toward what we’ve seen so far. And many of them seem to have been addressed in Fuller’s original vision.

        • TUP

          Usual concerns:

          – ship. Fuller is the one who chose it

          – Visuals. The rumor is Moonves was very unhappy with the quality of SFX under Fuller. So I mean, sure, maybe they completely altered the aesthetics but probably not..They are probably very similar since the production team didnt change. If rumors are true, the SFX are far better than what Fuller was producing.

          -Uniforms. Meh. We havent seen Fuller’s so we cant compare.

          – Canon. We dont know ideas Fuller had so we cant say. But these are HIS Klingons so thats one change. HE said they’d update the visuals so those remain the same. HIS uniforms are reportedly similar but still different from TOS so its still violating canon.

          This is just the usual MO of the whiners. They hated Fuller when he was in charge and now they love him because he’s not.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            “This is just the usual MO of the whiners. They hated Fuller when he was in charge and now they love him because he’s not.”

            Exactly. Some of the same people whining now about Fuller’s dismissal, were whining just as strong when he was in charge last year. LOL

          • M33

            I certainly didn’t care for Fuller’s personality, or his handling or mishandling of the new spinoff series, but I give him credit on the anthology idea as a very interesting idea that could have made a good series.
            I do think, however, that Discovery is better off without him at the helm, especially since Nick Meyer is still heavily involved and can bring some semblance of level maturity to the storytelling (and hopefully the pacing–one of his biggest gripes about modern films/shows during the STII blu ray commentary).

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I agree with you completely on this!

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      Fuller was disorganized and the show was heading int the wrong direction. And then when Moonvies brought in “adult supervision,” Fuller fought against it. Thus, he was let go.

      Notice how ever since Fuller left they actually got casting done, replaced that awful VFX team Fuller had started with, and now the show is finally on track!

      Fuller had to go. He had some good ideas, but he kept falling behind schedule, and was hopelessly disorganized, as we saw in the initial materials and horrid teaser released last summer.

    • TUP

      How did you get that from the article? Over-budget, disorganized. We already heard rumors that Moonves brought in a whole new SFX team because he wasnt happy with Fuller’s (and the fact Fuller thought that horrible teaser last year was worth releasing is not a good sign for him).

      Look, perhaps Fuller’s ideas were better and he might have pulled it off. But everyone of us that has a job has experienced moments when we think we know better than the decision makers. Maybe, sometimes, we submit an idea that gets used but ultimately, the people writing the cheques make the decisions.

      They DID like Fuller’s ideas though. They greenlit his first part, Discovery with the caveat of a wait-and-see on whether they’d jump times. Who knows, maybe they still will.

      We dont know how much of Fuller’s first season story was altered. We know he had Klingons etc so clearly some of it has remained. And the ship design etc was all Fuller.

      Uniforms. Well, the people complaining that the uniforms suck because they dont look exactly like The Cage are now lamenting that Fuller’s designs which sound different but similar to TOS werent used. They’d still be different! Oh NO, CANON!

      Look, I dont love the uniforms. A modern take on TOS would be fine. But the films just did that. CBS might have wanted something all knew. Perhaps they had to be careful of using derivatives too close to the films.

      As long as Discovery is good, who cared. This has happened to Fuller before, to the betterment of the series.

  • DS9 is King

    There running out of ideas, KHAAAN! Star Trek’s Khan To Get Limited Series From Nicholas Meyer https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07/30/star-trek-khan-series-nicholas-meyer/

    • Your Worst Nightmare

      While it’s plausible this might happen, I’ll believe it when it’s officially announced. Too many rumors these days that end up going nowhere.

    • TUP

      I guess Star Wars is running out of ideas too.

      If you’re a studio considering green-lighting a major major expense, you look for the easiest on-ramp to the most people. Thats why so many recent ideas involve TOS (or the TOS era), its the most widely associated-with-Star-Trek era.

      Khan makes a lot of sense especially with Meyer on board.

      Although I do have some concerns. If you have a series set ten years before TOS and one set essentially at the same time as TOS, arent you at risk of confusing people?

      Since STID was, creatively, a huge bomb, Im surprised they’d take one of the elements of that film, especially in such a different way. For deep Trek fans, its no big deal. We know Khan was marooned by Kirk. But, the wider audience, they might have heard of Khan but STID was likely their biggest relation to that character. So sure, take that character and spot light him, but a Marooned show has ZERO relation to the character seen in STID.

      So that’s interesting.

      If true though, this would tell us that CBS sees TOS derivatives as their best chance at success. And that *should* make us feel a bit comfortable that Discovery will do what they claim and be as respectful of canon as possible.

      • TIG1701

        You’re comparing apples and oranges. Star Wars is actually looking forward and not just backwards. Did you forget about TFA and TLJ? Star Trek is just going down the boring stale prequel route because they are afraid the 60 year olds might not watch if it doesn’t involve Kirk and Spock. I guess thats why TNG, DS9 and Voyager all got cancelled by 3rd season.

        Meanwhile the first prequel to TOS, Enterprise lasted about as long as a one term President and the JJ movies which were directly about TOS last film bombed so badly Paramount doesn’t even want to say if they will ever make another one or not (hint: no one hold their breaths…anymore). But yeah, lets keep telling ourselves keeping it around TOS is instant success….except when its not.

        • TUP

          You’re missing the point. If Star Wars doing prequels is good, regardless of the main saga, then why are prequels bad in Star Trek? Do you suddenly love Discovery if they made a Post Nem film?

          Trek failed badly its last time on TV. The film franchise looks all but dead. They are trying to revive everything with the easiest on-ramp to the wider audience.

          And Paramount aint Disney.

          If you want more Star Trek, support Discovery.

          • TIG1701

            Dude the Star War prequels were shit! What are you talking about? Rogue One was OK, I liked it but no one wants to turn that into a TV show thankfully. And the Han Solo movie, that’s sounding like a real winner. Yeah, sarcasm.

            And people went to watch the SW prequels because its SW. They were still really bad. And no I’m not saying they were bad just because they were prequels, although some ways they were bad because of that. Why, because they retcon the hell out of the OT. THATS the problem with prequels. They end up doing more bad than service of the franchise they claim to be honoring. Some are good, but most are shit.

            And after Enterprise and the JJ movies, yeah I have faith they know exactly how to make a prequel the same but different. Because that worked so well before. More sarcasm. And retcons like Spock suddenly having a sister 50 years after the fact reeks of bad fan fiction. But hey its a prequel, so let’s ‘shake it up’. Can’t wait when we find out in season 3 which character was Kirk’s cousin all along as well.

            And no Paramount isn’t Disney….Disney actually makes hit movies.

          • TIG1701

            Found this on Reddit. This sums it up for a lot of us:

            https://gfycat.com/FlawedMiserlyAustraliancurlew

    • Pedro Ferreira

      I know, it’s sad.

    • TIG1701

      A Khan TV show? Damn, what is happening with Star Trek? Why can’t these people come up with the next DS9? What is with all this tired/boring nostalgia crap? Isn’t thats what the JJ movies were for? What’s next, a show about how the tribble society started? I love Star Trek but man they need people in there who can really make it different again.

  • Your Worst Nightmare

    So I’m just going to put this out there for all of the other fans giving DSC a chance to those who don’t like what we’re getting… And this is in the utmost sincerity. It’s from the heart.

    I’m sorry.

    I’m sorry you have to pay for it if you want to watch it.
    I’m sorry you believe that people are trolling you.
    I’m sorry it’s not a Titan or Worf series.
    I’m sorry it’s not post-NEM.
    I’m sorry it’s in the TOS era.
    I’m sorry you’re generally not happy with the situation.
    I’m sorry you don’t like the uniforms.
    I’m sorry you don’t believe it fits into canon.
    I’m sorry you don’t like the ship.
    Most of all, I’m sorry for you that you’re not getting what you want.

    But at the end of the day, some of us are excited.

    We shouldn’t have all of this infighting. It’s ridiculous. You don’t like it enough to give it a chance. That’s fine. But let us have this moment. Let us enjoy it. Most of us have suggested that we’re willing to give it a chance but we’re cautiously optimistic about it. We may tune out after episode one. We may decide the streaming from CBS All Access is terrible. But we just want to give it a chance.

    You have the right to you opinions. We have the right to ours. It doesn’t make us your enemy. It doesn’t make us “part of the problem” or “you people.” This shouldn’t be us vs. them. This may be a sore spot but we had enough of that last year with the Axanar trial.

    Just live and let live. Please.

    Thank you for your attention.

  • Mabelmreed

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  • DS9 is King
    • TUP

      Any one could post a negative video in the hopes of getting clicks. This is pure clickbait.

      BUT..the HUGE news is that meyer is working on a Khan TV series. Thats incredible.

      But as a replacement series? Not a chance. CBS sure as hell isnt spending this kind of money on Discovery only to scuttle it. They will give it every chance to succeed. And since its not contingent on traditional ratings, I think Discovery is likely renewed pretty quickly (as The Good Fight was).

      We’ll know shortly if these rumors are just sour grapes by people who were replaced, click bait nonsense or true. But taking these ramblings at face value is silly.

      • Tom

        Hopefully Meyer can make an interesting series on Khan. Personally I wish they would do a proper sendoff for Shatner in one of these side projects to the main series and /or tie the story into the series.

        • TUP

          I agree. I get the impression the studio doesnt like dealing with Shatner. But the usual anti-Shatner people generally have nothing sensible to add. Shatner works, though obviously he’s slowing down. But everyone else who wanted him didnt seem to have trouble coming to an agreement.

          I suspect Shatner wants more than a usual guest star salary and rightfully so. He knows his value to Star Trek. One need only look at the media attention for the “leak” that he was included in Orci’s rejected Trek 3 script.

          One way I thought they could have involved Captain Kirk without using Shatner..or using him sparingly, was similar to what The Force Awakens did with Luke – make the story about the character who isnt seen. His looms over the show/film without over-powering it.

          The best thing Disney did on the new Wars films was 100% that every first line in TFA: “Luke Skywalker Has vanished”. That told you exactly what everything was about. Brilliant bit of writing.

          So I always wanted the series to be about Enterprise B. Imagine it limping home after the events seen in Generations. Star Fleet is embarrassed. Media scrutiny off the charts. Kirk is missing and presumed dead. Their new flag ship is “cursed”. Their young Captain humiliated and being blamed. etc.

          They “re fit” the ship (explaining some updates) and re-launch on some special mission. But the ghost of Kirk looms over the ship and Captain who let him die. A disgraced Captain, really, who need to earn back the respect of Star Fleet and the his underlings.

          I had wrote some fan fiction a long time ago to amuse my friends where I used that exact story and had Chekov as his First Officer with the idea Chekov was retired but essentially forced into the role to “babysit” Harriman. So you have strife there. Probably cant do that now but could use a similar idea.

          And who says you cant play with the science of the Nexus to “save” Kirk in the past while still allowing that he saved Picard in the future?

          • Tom

            Perhaps Fuller had some ideas on how to bring him back since he teased the idea at the SDCC panel last year. The writers of Discovery are supposedly all die hard fans. I’m sure they have great ideas as well. Anyone who has seen Generations has probably come up with an idea for a better sendoff. You are probably correct about the studio.

          • TUP

            They said as much when the idea for Shatner to appear on Enterprise came out. if I recall, Shatner had pitched an idea for him to be Mirror Universe Kirk and they countered with “Chef”.

            They said they just couldnt afford him. But I would strong suspect their offer was what they’d offer any cameo star for a supporting role whereas Shatner would certainly say that it doesnt matter if he plays a Tribble, hes William Shatner returning to Star Trek and that sort of PR is worth a lot of money.

            Hopefully they DO come up with something. Its certainly hard to fathom they wont visit some time travel episodes as they are a staple of Star Trek.

            One thought I always had was to let a season long story be about investigating his disappearance. The NExus would never work again in a movie but you could probably get away with it for a TV show.

          • TIG1701

            Star Trek can live on without Shatner and has for decades with four more shows and six movies. If he wanted to be in it again, lower his asking price. Nuff said. Anyway he’s way too old now. It would come across silly.

          • TUP

            Do you have a job? And at that job has your boss ever said “if you really wanted to work here, you’d accept a lower salary”?

            You can like Shatner or hate him but its ridiculous to suggest he should just to Trek cheap because he wants to.

            The greatest buzz Paramount got after STID, including their own lame marketing for Beyond, was the leak about Shatner. You cant put a price on that. They got immense free publicity over that…and then did nothing with it.

            That’s their choice, and Shatner’s choice if they dont come to an agreement. But obviously Shatner has been willing to appear in film or TV.

            As for his age, its just a number. He certainly doesnt look 86 years old. And we’ve seen numerous examples of projects that use technology to de-age actors. In fact, the upcoming film The Irishman will be doing that to Robert DiNero.

          • Tom

            Would be nice to see it happen while he is able

          • TIG1701

            I don’t care how old he is but yes he is too old to be some Captain hopping around the galaxy. Why bring him back? What would he do? Be Captain again? Really? What would even be the point? You think they will CGI Spock and Bones so they can go on one last adventure together? This is why we get crap like a Khan TV show and prequel after prequel because you guys can’t let go. Trek can’t just keep living in the past and bringing back 90 year old actors so old Trekkies can smile and gawk. Jesus, the franchise has to move in new directions. For awhile it was doing that. Now lets see how we can get Nichelle Nichols in an episode. She’s only 80 but the fans would love it.

            In order for Trek to survive it needs to feel like its doing new things for new generations of fans. As much as I thought the JJ films were mostly shit they did at least bring in new fans. And yes they did it with Spock and Kirk but as Beyond proved that didn’t really stick. End of the day Trek has to tell good stories with great characters. Trying to appease old Trekkies with fan service and constant references isn’t gong to make Trek live on. Bringing back Shatner is not going to bring in new fans, its just going to make old ones like yourself happy….but you’ll be watching regardless, not the 20 somethings out there, so again what’s the point?

          • Pedro Ferreira

            The only way to have a better send off is to bring back the whole crew which isn’t possible. Generations had a good send off for Kirk.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Are you kidding me? Kirk dies on a Home Depot scaffold was was a great sendoff?

            I am still fuming at that awful sendoff Berman gave Kirk in that movie. It was a travesty.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Like did you see the original ending they shot? I think we got a good ending all things considered. Kirk died saving millions. That to me is a very good send off.

          • M33

            Some of our greatest heroes and greatest explorers died over very trivial things or in an unglorious manner.
            Just look up the fate of Captain James Cook.
            Greatest explorer of the 18th century… killed in Hawaii over a squabble about a tiny boat.

            Kirk’s death was not grand… and that is simply real life.
            Brilliant, in my book.

          • TIG1701

            I thought Kirk’s death sucked but the way you put makes sense. I think why so many were bothered by his death is because he kind of just died and no one really acknowledged it except Picard. It felt like it happened in a vacuum. Yeah he died saving people but it felt like no one knew.

          • M33

            Totally agree with your assessment.
            I think what stuck with me is the message about the fragility of our lives, that despite all that we can and do accomplish, the amazing feats we all achieve, our lives can be snuffed out very easily, because this is a fragile and limited shell we exist within.
            Generations was a very touching and emotional film, very philosophical, something that all the other Trek films since have yet to match in the level of depth, in my opinion. It may not have been a great action film, but it certainly was memorable.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Exactly. Surely they could have wrote a better scene than that. Malcom McDowell thought is was crap, but Shatner just shut up and cashed the check. Shatner bears some responsibility for not telling Berman and company to come up with a better way for Kirk to die.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            His death wasn’t going out all guns blazing but the fact it happened the way you said while he saved millions from being destroyed it pretty heroic, more heroic than being shot in the back anyway.

          • M33

            I agree. It was heroic, but in a theoretic sort of way.
            I think TIG1701 hits the nail on the head by saying it felt like it happened in a vacuum, which is understandly why it did not have the gravitas that audiences would expect from a Hollywood film, or from Kirk’s own bombastic life.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            That is my only criticism of how he died. We never saw the millions of people he saved although from a budget point of view that just wasn’t possible. Not the filmmakers fault, more Paramount for not spending enough money on it.

            I’ve been rewatching the 70s Incredible Hulk TV series and it’s similar in that David Banner is a tragic figure who will forever be lonely and never return back to being human (especially since in the end he dies) but his actions along the way help others directly or indirectly so it’s basically Kirk dies to save millions.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You just identifed the problem I have with the whole Berman era in Star Trek….we fans were conditioned to accept things because “they could have been worse”

          • TIG1701

            Uh you can apply that to the franchise in general. Its not like everything in the TOS era was some grand design in film making and acting. A lot of times they just made due. Thats life.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Now you’re just being pessimistic towards that era. I love the movie but if I had to criticise Kirk’s death is that we were denied seeing all those people he saved either through time or budget (most likely the latter). I’d hardly call his death a failure in the context of what he did.

          • TUP

            lol

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You will never convince me to like that death scene. I can’t stand it.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            That’s fine but considering he originally got shot in the back it could have been much worse. Much, much much worse.

          • DC Forever

            So, like Oracle was saying, we are forced to accept a turd, because we might have been given diriahea?

            That’s not a recipe for good Star Trek scene writing.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            And if you read more than the one comment above I give reasons why I don’t think it’s a turd and is actually a fitting send off.

          • TUP

            Oracle, you’re just being pessimistic. No one else is pessimistic about, oh maybe, Discovery? lol

          • TUP

            Ummmmm….no.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Nobody cares what you think. No one was asking you for your opinion of mine.

          • TUP

            Childish as always. And here we go again. You really a distasteful troll aren’t you?

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Says the guy who belittles everyone else who has a different opinion.

          • TUP

            Stop lying and trolling. I’ve asked you to stop. I shouldn’t have to block someone to be free of harassment. Grow up please. You’re the worst here. By far.

        • Pedro Ferreira

          Another prequel series, just great…

          • M33

            And we know how Khan’s story ends…
            Not that interesting.
            Now a WWIII side project…
            THAT would be interesting!
            Or a Romulan War side project so we can finally see where Enterprise was suppose to end…
            THAT would be interesting!
            To me, Khan was always so boring of a villain and a poor benchmark for Star Trek.
            What made STII good wasn’t Khan, it was the remade sets, trappings, great character development, naval-style Starfleet, and a more understable situation and what is at stake.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            There’s talk about how it will revolve around Khan when he’s exiled. We’ll get a Mad Max style environment.

          • M33
          • Pedro Ferreira

            Yeah it’s been confirmed it’ll be about the wasteland he’s been imprisoned in like a Mad Max style environment. Probably will have some vehicle chases, you never know.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Mad Max-like vehicle chases similar to what we saw in TNG perhaps? — like this:
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fa4cf3c8eeac321840a00aa1d1d3a8c86102da38a8203f8bcb14e585bc82f950.jpg

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Yep and as you know that worked out so well. Ha, ha!

          • TIG1701

            Damn I hope this idiotic Khan idea is just a rumor. Why does this franchise keep falling back on lazy crutches. I’m guessing though if its not a complete joke there is going to be some tie in to Discovery. We find out in season two Cadet Tilly is not only secretly an augment buuuuut, wait for it, waaaaaaaait for it, a descendant of Khan Noonien Singh.

            BOOM!

            How exciting will that be huh? Look how original and out of the box that is? Wait we now have Khan’s relative aboard Discovery? Hey, maybe Discovery will do an episode tying in how Cadet Lilly has heard about Khan being out there somewhere and goes off to find him? That would be amazing! Star Trek will be fan servicing it up!

            Yeah I so can’t wait for Zzzzzzzzzzz. Sorry, I dozed off.

          • Pedro Ferreira
          • TIG1701

            The comments section in that article says it all. It seems like no one really wants this and asking why can’t Trek actually advance the franchise instead regurgitating more nostalgia? They need someone who wants do something than play it safe. Its sad. Even Trump SAD!

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Yeah I know and if you visit the page for the Discovery news you’ll likely find comments regarding the same complaint.

          • TUP

            It really doesnt matter to you if its good, does it? You have convinced yourself you hate prequels so thats all that matters.

            You’d rather have a bad Post Nem series than a good Pre-TOS series. Sad.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Probably because I’m not stuck in TOS fanboy mode who only cares about friggin prequels! You’ve had your prequels already, time to step aside.

      • DS9 is King

        Hi TUP I just wanted to Post that Vid to get opinions on this matter cause I Value the Opinions of everyone on trekcore, we have a great Group here. I have heard of the Khan Limited series and it’s interesting but not what I wanted, I can safely say that everyone was hoping for a Post Nemesis series not another prequel but I’ll take whatever I can get.

        • TUP

          If you think everyone wanted a Post Nem series, I can safely tell you that you’re wrong.

          • M33

            This is true.
            I was very excited to hear it would be TOS era.
            I’m just not keen on some of their design choices.

          • TUP

            Yes, I wont say you’re wrong for feeling that way. I think they could have gone LESS advanced while still looking modern. But I think TOS visuals were a non starter and I understand that.

            I really liked the look of the kelvin and if they kept that in mind for a pre TOS technology look, it would have worked.

            But we also havent seen everything on screen yet. So we’ll see if the slickness has a less advanced feel to it.

            And I agree, I was ALL about a “prequel”. I hate saying Prequel because its not accurate. But between Enterprise and Nem, there was so much space to play with and so many eras with nothing shown, I was excited to begin filling in the blanks.

            My preference was Enterprise B or Captain April.

          • TIG1701

            Not everyone…but certainly more than another tired TOS era show. We just saw this in the JJ films. Move on already.

          • TUP

            The same people that complained that Enterprise was a prequel now want to “move on” to an era that has been done to death.

            Its amazing that so many films and TV shows are depicted as “today” since “today” is so tired.

            We havent seen Discovery but we can suspect that no, we havent seen this at all.

            It’s CBS’ money and they want to play in this sandbox. If your only criticism is you dont like the era, then it sounds like you’re on board for liking the show because thats a silly criticism.

          • TIG1701

            Prequels suck. Look at all the complaints about this one. Not because they hate the ideas per se, but because the ideas don’t gel with their image of TOS. And yet, they are telling us the ‘timeline’ is the same. Yes if you ignore that everything looks different, Spock suddenly has a sister, the ship looks doesn’t look like it belongs in the 24th century, much less the 23rd and Klingons look like they got major face surgery then yeah its all the same era.

            Why bother? If this era is so great why change everything about it? Why upset old Trekkies who thought they are going to see an updated version of a cheap looking show from the 60s only to find it looking like JJ verse? How that go btw?

            It would’ve made much more sense to put it a different era. You want a war with the Klingons? They couldn’t do that in the 25th century? They split from the Klingons in DS9, its not exactly a new thing. But yes we need to put it here because old Trekkies need to know Kirk and Spock is out there…and we can at least follow Spocks sister around. Jesus.

          • TUP

            There is nothing wrong with the idea at all.

            Your post is full of subtle insults to people who like TOS. The vast majority of Trek fans like TOS. And even more of the general public knows TOS moreso than any other era.

            Or, you are correct and CBS are full of dummies who didnt bother to check with random people on message boards to learn how to properly market the series…

          • TIG1701

            No one is saying you can’t like TOS, what people are saying is we don’t want to relive it endlessly for next 20 years. Can we move on and do new things again? You guys got a new TOS movie series for god sakes, was that not enough? And most of you hated it which tells me trying to appease TOS fanboys is a waste of time. Mark my words all the TOS fanboys Discovery was supposedly made for is going to hate it because like the JJ films its going to feel so different from that show its only going to upset them more. Look at the comments so far about it? Who is doing the complaining about the insignia shouldn’t be there and how everything is too advanced or how the uniforms should look like ‘The Cage’? Why keep trying to make these people happy? You’re not.

            Enterprise and the Kelvin Universe films both failed to please these people. Discovery looks like its making the same mistakes. Maybe better story telling will make the difference but I have a feeling it won’t.

          • TUP

            You people get so upset and immediately begin assuming everyone that disagrees is a tos “fanboy” as is thrown around here.

            I only saw TOS in re runs. I grew up on TNG.

            I didn’t care what era they chose. I’d be excited. My preference was Enterprise B. But if they chose Post Nem so be it

            Anyone who thinks they can’t tell new and exciting stories in any era is absolutely clueless.

            Too many of you are critical of a show you haven’t seen for doing things you haven’t seen them do within a context no one knows

            Are you going to complain for 7 years of this series lasts that long?

            Give it a rest. Hope this series is successful because if it is then we likely get more. And Likely in different eras.

            There can be plenty new in this era. An era we literally saw for an hour on The Cage. That’s it.

          • TIG1701

            If you’re not a TOS fanboy, cool then. Thats who I am mainly talking about.

            And I plan to watch the show and give it a chance man. I got AA when I thought the show was coming in May. I haven’t cancelled it and won’t. Of course I want it to be good. But yeah I’m still worried this is going to be another Enterprise or JJ verse part three and the fanboys will moan how this will suck like those. Maybe I’m wrong, but yeah.

            They should’ve put it in another era. The fanboys moan about everything and I have to say I agree with some of it myself. The difference is I don’t personally care of the changes so much as I care about the consistency. Thats the whole point of being a prequel. If you can’t do that, then it doesn’t feel much like a prequel but more of a reboot. Maybe if they just called it that there would be less complaints about it. And its starting to feel too fanboyish with the whole Spock sister thing but yeah maybe it will all make sense.

            But I have a feeling a lot of fans is going to treat this like Enterprise and JJ verse and don’t consider it canon.

      • Jaro Stun

        actually, the prospect of Khan series excites me precisely 0%
        does not sound good to me at all, not star trek at all.

        everyone wants to be so friggin original and just not do Star Trek.
        Then why dont they change the name and DO the original thing. Ahhhh…that thing called marketing

        • TUP

          The thing is, if they are doing a big space show, why cant they also have a Khan show? Differences are good.

          • TIG1701

            Because its just more filler. Really? A Khan TV show?? That is one of he most lamest ideas I heard since a Power Rangers reboot. Why can’t they actually do new and interesting things with Trek instead of going back to the same old tired well? Maybe they can get Benedict Cumberbatch to play him again. Trekkies would love that I’m sure.

          • TUP

            I must have missed the Trek series that explored a group of people marooned on a planet that became a wasteland. Yup, same old same old.

          • TIG1701

            No man, what you’re missing is a story we already know what happened. We know the neighboring planet destroyed, people died, they struggled for years to survive until the Reliant showed up and they got off it. Do we seriously need a TV show to tell us what we basically already know? We know how it ends already. Sure someone will stretch it out and turn it into stories but why would you want to watch something that everyone ALREADY knows the outcome to? This is why I don’t get? Why in the hell would you waist another potential Trek show that could take us to other areas of the galaxy, other eras, other conflicts and focus on something everyone knows what happened to a bunch of people who was killed in TWOK? Why narrow yourself to something this lame when its STAR TREK and you have multiple unknown possibilities you can use to tell actual original stories with?

            But yes lets go back to the nostalgia crap, because apparently Trekkies of a certain age only want to recall the 60s and 80s over and over again. Sigh.

      • TIG1701

        A KHAN TV SHOW??????? Zzzzzzzzz

        Wake me after it gets canceled.

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      LOL. This is basically a negative fan’s opinion, like some on this site, who just happens to spend a lot of his free time to do a video to give his opinion the facade of more gravitas that him posting his negative thoughts on a web site.

      I am wholly unimpressed.

      • DS9 is King

        Hi Science Fiction Oracle how are you? hope your having a great day, Do you think that Midnight Edge is correct and they could revive Bryan Fullers anthology Idea and have Discovery be one Season and next Season they will have a new Ship a new Crew in a Different Era or could they use the same Ship the same crew but create a situation where they may get thrown to a Future Era Post Nemesis? I like to hear your thoughts on this , thanks.

        • Jaro Stun

          honestly i dont want to see fuller near anything related to star trek for a good while. this PC mission of his called Discovery is a proof of that. I think its a good thing they fired him.

          Otherwise we would likely end up with *identity of the week* episodes, instead of *forehead of the week*

          The sad part is, we still might lol

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          Hey, thanks for asking! Yes, I do really like that aspect of Fuller’s original concept. It would be very cool for them to revisit different eras in Star Trek every year with a serialized plot.

          It would be interesting to see how the Discovery itself though would be able to get to those different era’s — that seems like it would be hard to pull off. But I am sure they could some up with something.

          • TUP

            We can have pie in the sky wishes but have to consider the business realities.

            A true anthology is likely very expensive. And one consistent trait of the successful Star Trek is the emotional connection to the characters. Knowingly throwing that away every season is risky.

            If you keep the ship the same and only move ahead a few years at a time, you can follow the characters through stages of their lives and keep costs down by doing minor re-dresses of the ship’s interiors.

            The Netflix series The Queen did this. The main cast is being replaced after the second season due represent them aging.

            An anthology sounds cool in theory but is a radial departure. I’d rather they create multiple series’ in different eras. And build to a cross over event.

        • TIG1701

          I like to see Fuller anthology vision as well. Its nice to know he never intended for this to be just another prequel, just stuck with it because CBS didn’t want to do a different show every season. And I can’t blame them on that but I like what he wanted to do with Trek. Show it in multiple eras and just have this one be the beginning. Fuller is a truly ambitious person that tries to push boundaries in all his projects. CBS is a network for old people that does a lot of stale forensic and reality shows. He was lucky to do the stuff he did. This isn’t HBO.

      • Pedro Ferreira

        Of course you are, you like Discovery.

        • Jaro Stun

          I am quite reserved when it comes to DIscovery (still excited to see it, but keeping my expectations strongly in check due to all the press flying around), but the Midnight’s Edge videos are too much.

          Looks and sounds legit, but its just a rant of a dissatisfied fan, nothing else

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Their videos are extremely informative and they never sound like they’re ranting.

          • TUP

            How are they informative when you cannot confirm the veracity of the information?

          • Pedro Ferreira

            All their info has been verified and taken from sources. When they get to rumours they clearly state these are rumours so what’s your problem exactly? Are you looking for problems with their videos because they made a video that doesn’t agree with your opinions?

          • TUP

            Your statement is 100% false. Since the video was deleted I’d assume this site agrees with me. It was also pooh-pooh’ed on another Trek site. Try to keep up.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Deleted? Who’s the one making false statements? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQcLLfzzKWA

        • TUP

          You’re essentially saying that Science Fiction Oracle’s opinion that he/she is unimpressed with the video is due to a bias because he/she is looking forward to Discovery.

          Yet, you dont see how that can be applied to your own position?

          • Pedro Ferreira

            The video is well made. It’s informative and fairly objective so yeah Oracle does come across as biased. I mean I didn’t expect him to like the video did I?

          • TUP

            If Joe Blow made a video praising Dicovery and all the changes CBS made for the better, you’d be the one on here saying its just a fan and has no credibility.

            There is zero evidence to support anything. Its an interesting video but its a hack job.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Couldn’t the same be said for you? And no Midnight Edges videos are very informative and well put together. I learned a lot about the Ghostbusters reboot travesty from the channel.

          • TUP

            No, if someone made a video praising Discovery I’d say the same thing. Nice video, but cant prove what they are saying. Wait for the show. etc etc. You know, the same things I’ve said all along….

          • Pedro Ferreira

            The video isn’t even hating Discovery, it’s merely stating how it came to be and rumours of possible developments behind the scenes. It sounds like you have a bone to pick with anyone to be honest.

          • TUP

            How is it informative when none of the information can be verified?

          • Pedro Ferreira

            It is all verifiable, it’s all been told in the press or reported apart from the rumours which he clearly states when he says them. Watch the video again before saying the video is wrong.

    • Pedro Ferreira

      This was a really informative video. I hope Nicholas Meyer can save Star Trek even if it’s yet another prequel!

    • Jaro Stun

      nah, this is the doom and gloom fan opinion which is enveloped into style to make it look like investigative journalism (of sorts).
      more than a few facts in there are wrong, though the visual distinction from all old star trek is not only a suspicion – its openly communicated intention. it’s not 60-ties anymore, not the time for cardboard sets and T-shirt uniforms.

      it would be much better had they set this to post-nemesis era for sure, given sufficient time-gap they would be limited by nothing but a sky full of stars.

      • M33

        Plyboard, not cardboard!!
        Well, except for that amazing exterior planet set for “The Man Trap”.
        And is polystyrene really “better” than cardboard anyway…?

        • Jaro Stun

          well any of them at least they have substance. the green screen has none xD

          • M33

            Green screen is the worst…
            They didn’t even do a good job fixing it in the TNG season 2 remasters.

  • Pedro Ferreira

    “Many months later, Fuller saw the ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ trailer. How did he feel watching that? Fuller pauses: “What I can say is… my reaction was that I was happy to see a black woman and an Asian woman in command of a starship.”” Nope, nothing to do with the sets, story or dialogue, nope it’s his diversity vision that is more important, oh boy.

    Hopefully we’ll get an anthology series although I don’t think if Fuller was in charge it would come out well due to his current SJW mentality. Isn’t Nicholas Meyer working on a new Star Trek project?

    • Jaro Stun

      yes. the Diversity is his mission and vision, and the whole reason for this series to exist. I am wondering why they dont even call it Star Trek:Diversity

      its simply a political/ideological message forcefully fed to everyone. The most fun part I laugh constantly about is, Star Trek was always as diverse as ever. They are doing nothing new here, they just use the Identity politics momentum to promote themselves.

      Whoever would rather focus on the show, sets, CGI, god forbid stories is wrong. Because its the Diversity we must pay full attention to instead.

      Star Trek was always a mirror of its times. In this way, Discovery is actually following the tradition. Identity politics is what’s hot now. So here we go.

      • TUP

        Im sure CBS feels a general sense of wanting to be good moral people. But I’d suggest the whole reason this series exists is to make money.

        • Jaro Stun

          true, but from artistic point of view, it seems to me the *diversity* was much higher on the priority list then any of the usual things (stories, chars, visuals etc) Fuller boasted from the beginning about how diversity will be sooo very important on this show

          • TUP

            Did Fuller boast? Or was Fuller asked?

            Many here look at the idea of Discovery as a trailblazer in diverstiy as an odd idea since Star Trek was always diverse. But its for that reason that the general media considers Star Trek as a diversity trail blazer.

            So the media sees an openly gay producer and asks the obvious questions about diversity. I never saw Fuller beat a dead horse on this issue. He was asked questions about it many times.

            Now sure, he could say “Martin-Greene was hired because she was a good actor. Period”. And obviously thats true. But EVERY production makes creative decisions based on ethnicity.

            They create characters of whatever background they envision and then cast them so they created a black character.

            If Fuller created a black character or an Asian character or a gay character because he consciously felt it was important to feature minority characters, THAT IS NOT A BAD THING. lol Geez.

            But again, I never saw him beat the subject into the ground at all.

          • Jaro Stun

            c’mon, this is what (former) EP of a show replies when seeing a creative artwork:

            “Many months later, Fuller saw the ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ trailer. How did he feel watching that? Fuller pauses: “What I can say is… my reaction was that I was happy to see a black woman and an Asian woman in command of a starship.””

            this clearly shows where his priority lies.
            nowhere in there was he asked about diversity. it was the first and only thing he had to say about the trailer.

          • TUP

            I took that remark as subtle criticism of the show, that the only thing remaining from his vision was the positive casting.

          • Jaro Stun

            i take it as a bit deeper than that. but opinions are always subjective

        • Roger Birks

          That was always the case! Every tv show in business is chiefly made to make money!

          • M33

            George Carlin:
            “It’s all bullshit, folks… it’s all bullshit…”

            Yeah, truth be told, as much as Star Trek means to all of us, it’s morals and ideal society….
            It was all a way for a bunch of folks in Hollywood to make money and live it up!
            Even Gene! (You should read about his lifestyle and behaviors during TOS)

            And this is coming from a guy who has the starfleet insignia tattooed on his body!

          • TIG1701

            Roddenberry sounded like a real asshole. I lost all respect for that guy eons ago.

      • Pedro Ferreira

        Great points, I totally agree.

      • M33

        Star Trek: Diversity?
        These are the voyages of the USS Diversity…?

        Well, honestly, it flows better off the tongue than Star Trek: Discovery ever has for me.

        LOL

    • TUP

      I took Fuller’s statement as subtle criticism.

      • Pedro Ferreira

        Criticism of what? The guy comes across as more ecstatic about diversity than the actual story.

        • TUP

          I dont know. Criticism of being fired and the show being altered from his original design?

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Are you reading the same quote as me? In his quote he praises what has happened to the show he conceived.

          • TUP

            Why are you obsessed with me? Please stop. I shouldn’t have to block someone to be free of trolling and spam posting.

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