Star Trek: Discovery gives us a fun bottle episode this week, providing us the opportunity to spend time developing the characters and their relationship in an homage to the greatest time loop episodes from previous Star Trek, such as the great fifth season episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, “Cause and Effect.”

Of all the episodes of Discovery thus far, this one felt the most “Star Trek,” relying on a familiar science fiction concept that was enjoyably executed.

As the episode opens — this is the first live-action Star Trek episode since “The Cage” without a cold open — Burnham is reflecting on her new position and routine on the Discovery. At a party in the mess hall, Burnham and Tyler are called to the bridge before they are given an opportunity to have a discussion about their burgeoning feelings for each other, despite Tilly’s efforts to connect them. The Discovery has encountered a gorgamander, an endangered ‘space whale,’ which the crew is obligated to bring aboard.

When they do so, they find that Harcourt Fenton Mudd is hiding in the creature, having escaped from the Klingon prison in which Lorca left him, and determined to take control of the ship and sell it to the Klingons.

Mudd (Rainn Wilson) reveals himself underneath an Andorian protective helmet. (CBS)

Mudd is using a time crystal to reset time every 30 minutes, in order to learn the perfect method of taking control of the Discovery so that he can sell it to the Klingons, and to exact his revenge on Lorca for leaving him in the Klingon prison.

The only member of the crew who realizes that time is resetting is Stamets, due to his interaction with the spore drive, which seems to be having an ongoing effect on his personality (he’s gotten very groovy!) While Mudd learns how to more effectively take control of the ship in each time loop, Stamets learns the fastest way of getting the crew to realize they are stuck in a time loop and work against Mudd.

In the penultimate time loop, Mudd kills Tyler after the crew almost succeed in regaining control of Discovery, and Stamets gives himself up to Mudd as he is unable to watch Mudd kill any more people. Mudd is about to restore the time stream to normal when Burnham offers herself to Mudd as another valuable addition in his transaction with the Klingons, given her role in killing T’Kuvma. She forces Mudd to reset time one more time by committing suicide, and restarts the process again.

In the final time loop, Burham, Tyler, and Stamets deceive Mudd into thinking he has won by re-wiring the captain’s chair. Instead of the Klingons that Mudd was expecting, his wife Stella and father-in-law Barron Grimes beam aboard the Discovery. Grimes offers to take Mudd off Discovery’s hands and Mudd, who was more interested in Stella’s money than her or her family, is clearly dissatisfied with the Discovery crew getting the best of him.

Lorca (Jason Isaacs) is vaporized during one of Mudd’s looped executions. (CBS)

The characters and their dynamics finally click properly into place in this episode. The collaborative relationship depicted between Burnham, Stamets, Tyler, and Tilly is grounded in the very best tradition of the franchise. Gone is the coldness and the confrontation, replaced by colleagues who genuinely seem to respect and enjoy each other’s company.

This foursome (pending further developments of a certain fan theory regarding Lt. Tyler,) are quickly forming the heart and soul of the Discovery in the same mold as previous Star Trek crews. It’s an encouraging sign, and because of the confrontation in earlier episodes it feels thoroughly earned. These characters like and trust each other because they have proved their worth, which is ultimately more satisfying than a crew who gel right from the get go.

We get a number of great character moments in this episode that add to their depth. We learn that Burnham has never been in love and we see the relationship between Burnham and Tyler begin to blossom. Sonequa Martin-Green and Shazad Latif have so much chemistry it’s almost enough to incite an explosion on par with combining anicium and yurium (and as a result I am hoping the fan theory about Tyler and Voq is more nuanced in execution than it suggests on its face).

Tyler (Shazad Latif) and Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green) face off against Mudd. (CBS)

In this episode we also get much more insight into the Stamets/Culber relationship and why Culber would be attracted to the misanthropic Stamets that we came to know before his interaction with the spore drive. Stamets is fast becoming my favorite character; here’s hoping he makes it through the season and his interactions with the spore drive alive!

The Harry Mudd we see in this episode is much more dangerous than the character who turns up in the Original Series. Rainn Wilson expertly shows Mudd as vindictive, goofy, erudite, ambitious, deceitful, and delightful. You get the sense that there are multiple takes of a lot of Rainn Wilson’s lines – and maybe some ad-libbing?

If so, I hope we get to see more of that on the special features of Discovery’s inevitable Blu-ray release. Ultimately, the harder edge for Mudd’s character either works for you or it doesn’t – it’s a little difficult to see how Mudd the murderer reconciles with the milder Mudd the conman from the Original Series, but I find myself not overly concerned by it.

Likewise, the episode’s resolution is one that I can see dividing many fans into the love it or hate it camp. For me, I love it because it’s just like how a classic episode of the Original Series would end, even if it’s not all that realistic. Mudd, who committed multiple murders in his time jumps, should realistically be remanded into custody for a life in prison.

Stella (Katherine Barrell) and Mudd reunite as her father, the Barron Grimes (Peter MacNeill), looks on. (CBS)

Instead, he is forced to rejoin his wife and father-in-law – a fate worse than prison for Mudd? It either works for you as a loving homage to the streak of camp that ran through the comedic episodes of the Original Series, or it falls flat and Mudd has been allowed to get away with multiple murders. I can see both sides.

We also see the crew of the Discovery acting more like relatible 21st century humans than any previous Star Trek crew, which is another element that is likely to ignite debate. We see a party on the Discovery very familiar to anyone who has come of age in the last four decades, complete with beer pong, dancing to Wyclef Jean, and making out.

Cello recitals in Ten Forward this is not, but I think for Star Trek to connect with a modern audience and be able to teach us important lessons about humanity today, it needs its characters to make those kinds of relatible choices. At this point, who doesn’t see a little bit of Tilly in themselves?

Paul Stamets (Anthony Rapp) tries to explain the situation. (CBS)

Ultimately, I enjoyed “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad” just as much as other great Star Trek reset button episodes, including “Cause and Effect,” which it most closely resembled. We got much-needed additional insight into the characters, the crew is really starting to gel together, and the show is continuing to demonstrate its confidence in using familiar Star Trek tropes but doing so in interesting and creative ways.

Like Stamets says, “As days go, this is a weird one…” but boy, was it fun!

And as one final note: We finally get a good enough view of the USS Discovery dedication plaque in this episode, letting us read the quote many have been asking about since the ship arrived on screen.

“All truths can be understood once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.” – Galileo Galilei

 

*   *   *

Series producers Aaron Harberts and Ted Sullivan each revealed a few behind-the-scenes filming images from Discovery‘s seventh episode tonight on Twitter.

Star Trek: Discovery returns next Sunday with “Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum” — and keep checking back to TrekCore throughout the week for all the latest in Discovery news!

  • I agree, this one was just full on fun.

  • Snap

    Responses from the now closed Spoiler thread:

    @TUP
    “Wasnt Mudd selling women into sex slavery?? Geee, he wasnt a loveable jerk. He was an awful person.”

    Uh… DUH! I didn’t say he was a “loveable jerk,” I said he wasn’t an evil murderer. He’s clearly scum but there’s the slight possibility that he could reform. There’s no reformation from what he did on Discovery. It clearly indicated that Discovery is a reiagined “prime” and not the established or “classic” prime.

    “No it cant be. its prime. Why do you insist on arguing something that isnt in question. There are facts. And there are things to be debated. This isnt one. Its prime.”

    Dicovery has ZERO effect on the classic prime, it is essentially irrelevant. It is a reimmagined prime. Why does it bother you so much that someone you’ll never meet has a differing point of view than yourself? Does it seriously affect how you enjoy Discovery? Why do you argue with me over stuff which doesn’t even affect the show, when there are Trumpian fools who pick and choose what to consider “canon” based on whether they think it is stupid or not? The difference between those idiots and me is they expect people to share their beliefs, I couldn’t care less if anybody agrees with my point of view. The only reason it goes around in a circle is because you and others CONSTANTLY get on my ass about it.

    Agree to disagree and just ignore what you don’t like. Bully tactics aren’t going to make me change my opinion.

    @Eric Cheung
    “It’s Prime because the writers say it’s Prime. That much has been said by others. ”

    We’re talking about the same people who ignore portions of canon they refuse to accept? Whether it is the Enterprise explanation for the TOS Klingons, or the TMP Enterprise not being the same ship no matter what BS the producers say? So… it’s okay for SOME people to just ignore whatever they like whereas others are bullied into submission?

    I don’t think so.

    I don’t care if you disagree with my views, it doesn’t affect how I enjoy Star Trek at all and I would suggest that you and others not let it affect your own enjoyment and agree to disagree.

    Do you consider TAS to be canon? Gene Roddenberry didn’t, yet we see references from TAS as well as the novels in the “canon connections.”

    @JP
    “This is a practical reboot of the prime timeline. Once you accept that, none of these concerns matter anymore.

    If you can’t accept it, there’s no point watching.”

    I’m not saying Discovery is bad, I like the show. This episode not so much. The sensitive snowflakes just can’t handle any criticism for the show. I realize my tone is more confrontational, but I am sick and tired of dealing with the arrogance and hypocrisy of the Trumpian fools (thankfully, I’ve blocked those reprobates and don’t have to deal with their drivel anymore) and those who pre-emptively attack people with labels like “canon fascists” for having the gall to appreciate canon.

    As an entry in a reimagined prime timeline, Discovery is a pretty good work and an interesting ride.

    @Ian Fleming
    “As a fellow prequel series to Star Trek the same could also be said for Enterprise.”

    That is true. It’s the problem with prequel series in that their influence can only be felt in subsequent productions. The argument you made can be taken to even further extremes, though. There would be no TNG without TOS, as there would be no DS9 or Voyager without TNG. However, the flaw in the argument is the prime timeline from TOS to Voyager follow a progression of events. In the TNG era, there is no mention of Gabriel Lorca, Michael Burnham or the Discoery and its spore drive, just as there is no mention of the Xindi, the Suliban or even the Denobulans.

    So, yeah, Enterprise could be considered part of a reimagined prime timeline along with Discovery, provided the apparent “inconsistencies” are resolved by Discovery’s conclusion. There are people, though, who mistake “reimagined” or anything not “prime” as meaning “invalid” when it couldn’t be further from the truth.

    • mr joyce

      Why did you have to make your post so long, couldn’t you have condensed it and just made one or two points which ‘distill’ your view?

      • Snap

        As I said in the first line, it was in response to replies which I cannot reply to individually because the thread was locked before I had the opportunity. If you don’t like either the content or length of my posts… don’t read them.

        • mr joyce

          i know what it was in response to, and i never said whether i liked it or not, you dont have to get so defensive, i was actually trying to be nice by giving you a bit of advice. the point is, it is crazy long whatever view you take on the subject. whatever points you are trying to get readers to see will be ignored purely because of the length, as is evidence by the fact that those who you address in your post have not even replied.

          • Snap

            If I appear to get defensive regarding my views, it’s because I’m not allowed to have such views without being attacked in obnoxious and trollish manners., There have even been times where I’ve been challenged on something I’ve said and when citing canon sources, I’m told they don’t count because they think the canon is “BS.”

            I’ve lost my patience dealing with people who are perfectly pleasant so long as I agree with what they have to say, then become increasingly condescending and rude the moment I say something they disagree with.

          • mr joyce

            hey, i know there are some people on here that are like that, but when you start to have such strong feelings about being treated a certain way due to your views about certain aspects of the franchise, thats fandom gone too far. you shouldnt take it so seriously that you start to feel that way, its just entertainment. if someone irritates you, ignore or block them

    • Victorinox

      Sorry buddy, but this is the prime timeline. Period.

      No bloody JJ, or Kelvin, or Reimagined anything. This is 100% pure canon prime timeline.

      I’m sorry that makes you feel bad, but writing pages and pages of nonsense arguing otherwise is just embarrassing.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/901c3882a7d64b9d863c6abff706550dc013a39a0038c0b3d2bbbf68d289b5d7.jpg

      • Snap

        Trolls will troll. Thanks for proving my point.

        • Victorinox

          The point is you don’t have a point. Moving on… nothing to see here.

        • TUP

          The worst trolling is the people who keep stating or implying this is not PRIME.

          • Yep

          • Snap

            I may not have used it consistently, but recently notice I have said either “established prime” or “classic prime.” In my interpretation, it clearly does not fit within the established prime and I’m not even referring to the visuals and, as has been pointed out, Rainn Wilson considers his Harry Mudd a “reimagining” of the character.

            Of course, as I have said multiple times, I do not expect in the least for others to agree with my interpretation, I’m not trying to “convince” anyone or force it upon them considering Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

            It is, however, others who insist upon arguing with me, telling me I’m wrong and insulting me for having my interpretation and actually voicing it. I’m more than happy to agree to disagree on issues, but I just want to reiterate that in no way am I saying Discovery is “bad” or “not real Trek.” i’m not going to love every episode, but I am enjoying it.

          • TUP

            Doesn’t matter. No caveats. It’s prime. Period.

          • Snap

            Like I said, you can have whatever viewpoint yo want and so can I. It doesn’t affect anybody else so I don’t see why you and others are so hung up about it.

            It is not my fault if you and those others are unwilling to be reasonable.

          • TUP

            That’s true. But when something is a fact your viewpoint is either correct or incorrect. Yours is incorrect. You can choose to be wrong. But why would you?

            Usually when people are wrong it’s because they don’t know. Most people don’t choose to bury their heads in the sand and be wrong knowingly.

            It’s prime. That’s not an opinion thing. It’s a fact

      • kadajawi

        At least as far as visuals go it is clearly reimagined, unless they do a ton to explain away the visual difference. Technologically the jury is still out, but so far that too is reimagined/updated. And anything related to the Klingons isn’t canon either, nothing even remotely says Klingon. To be granted, TOS Klingons are nothing like TMP/TNG Klingons either, and that change was explained away, so there is the chance (although good luck with the D7). But from what we know so far this isn’t 100% pure canon prime timeline.

        • That change was “explianed away” 30+ years after the fact over a joke.

          Canon is not looks and nothing really violates canon other than the updated holograms, which fits in the timeline and can be laid at the feet of ENT.

          • Victorinox

            This video puts DSC’s holo-thingy in context. A must watch.

            The holo-thingy (does it have a name yet?) is a perfect evolution from ENT’s holo emitters also used for training. The whole thing fits nicely with canon and doesn’t contradict anything shown in the past.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewjh0lPRQGI

          • It is also like the one seen on the enterprise in TAS.

          • kadajawi

            If you exclude everything that doesn’t match as not canon, then yes, it’s canon. 🙂 And technically looks may not be canon (though I’d say visual style isn’t, i.e. the way it is shot and lit, but design is), but looks are still important.

            IMHO a show playing in the 50s needs to look like the 50s, as in sets, props. It doesn’t have to be shot like in the 50s, it doesn’t have to be lit like back then, it doesn’t have to be shot on old filmstock. But I’d expect there to be cars from the 40s and 50s, I’d expect there to be old phones, and the clothes that people back then wore. We have a pretty decent idea how the 2260s look like. Also the Enterprise is an older design than the Discovery, so the Discovery needs to look like an evolution of the Enterprise. Actually it should look like a cross between the Enterprise and the Excelsior, being designed and produced between those ships.

            Now I admit that the Discovery sort of makes sense in universe. It has many of the analog controls, with a bit more tech (minus the holograms, which go too far IMHO). But if they chose to show the Enterprise or another Constitution class ship (and I think they will), it better looks like one. It can have more details. It doesn’t need to be a pastel colored rainbow factory inside (IMHO). But it should be clearly recognizable.

        • Victorinox

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8f975f3bc0f2f853bb18b60d0fcaf1ac982b3420df92b2742e5876789dc204c9.jpg These are all dogs. They don’t look at all like each other. Yet they are all dogs. You have tiny ones, and huge ones. You have some with long faces, others with short round faces. You have some with long legs, others with short legs. But, all of them are dogs.

          Even humans don’t all look like each other. These are all humans. You have tall ones, and short ones. Hairy ones, and not hairy ones. Some look like us, some look like apes. But, all of them are human. In the beginning Homo sapiens coexisted with Neanderthals, the Denisovans, Homo erectus, and the diminutive “hobbit” species Homo floresiensis. It was only quite recently did we become the sole human species to wander the earth. So clearly, not all humans look like homo sapiens.

          We know other branches of human evolution became extinct, but that doesn’t mean other species in other planets would have to go the same way. It is perfectly feasible that the other branches of Klingon evolution stuck around and are now part of Klingon society.

          Yet, although we know dogs don’t all look the same, and even humans don’t all look the same, for whatever reason, some people can’t deal with the fact that an interplanetary species could also be composed of individuals that don’t look all exactly like each other. For whatever reason, some people can’t deal with the fact that some Klingons don’t look like Worf.

          In any case, nothing of what has been shown so far in DSC contradicts established canon. And as I said repeatedly, the writers of this show are not only guardians of canon, but creators of new canon.

          So like it or not, this is 100% prime timeline.

          • kadajawi

            Yes, you make a good point. However when I look at a cat… I see a cat. I recognize a cat. When I see a tiger, I see that they are related, even though they are different. With monkeys too, many different species, but you see they are related.

            But the Klingons don’t look related at all. I’m thinking all sorts of Star Trek species when looking at the new Klingons, but not Klingons. And we see quite a few houses, and they all look rather similar. They are different, but similar, and you can see that they are of one species. If we would see some Klingons that look closer to TNG Klingons, that would be enough. Some hybrids between the two. Or in the background a Klingon that looks like one. We may still see one, and then all may be fine. We may hear about experiments to revert the augment virus that went wrong. But right now, they are way too different.

            Right now I’d say between TNG and DSC Klingons the difference is like between Humans and Chimpanzees.

            The D7 battle cruiser has nothing in common with the D7 ships we’ve seen so far. Couldn’t these ships have received a different name? The D7 in DSC is the most Klingon ship we’ve seen so far, but it just isn’t a D7. Any other, NEW name…

          • Victorinox

            I can totally see Kol as a regular Klingon. All he needs is some long hair. But the rest is all there. The leather style clothing. Familiar ridges. If that guy grows hair and a beard he would totally fit with the rest of the TNG klingons. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/da1e83296fcef5e87b8fe98f85869e1d50538a5a07c6165f455dea8fc04cf7d1.jpg

          • kadajawi

            I don’t know. Perhaps if he had facial hair, I’d see it differently. But for some reason he doesn’t look like part of the same species, and even if I try to imagine there being hair everywhere I have a hard time.

            I think my main problem is the nose. That and the eyebrow area. Above the eyes old Klingons had something very pronounced, it looked like underneath the eyebrows there were some pretty exaggerated bones. The eyes are further apart with DSC Klingons (and a different color, but ok). The head itself has shrunken quite a bit… the forehead was rather big on TNG Klingons. And the skin color is very different.

            The differences aren’t so big by themselves, but the overall effect is huge. We have seen all sorts of different foreheads on Klingons (just compare Gowron with Korrd or Worf). But for some reason they looked similar enough. And within a family there was a resemblance (which I believe they try for DSC too?). So Worf looks similar to his brother and his son, and the Duras family has similar ridges too.

          • Victorinox

            How can the eyes be farther apart if they are all played by normal actors? Any difference is within the range of normal variation between people.

          • kadajawi

            Good point. But somehow it seems that way. Maybe a choice in casting, or maybe an effect of the masks which distort the face. Old Klingons look like they’ve got, well, hull plating on their forehead. The eyes are recessed and thus well protected. New Klingons don’t have the thick forehead, I think the masks are as thin as possible perhaps? I simply don’t think that hair alone is enough to turn them into actual Klingons. It may be more acceptable, yes, but you still wouldn’t mistake them for Klingons.

          • kadajawi

            I’ve just watched the most recent Orville episode, and their random alien species of the week who weren’t even supposed to be Klingon-like looked much more Klingon than the Discovery Klingons.

            I mean, I love that they are going for more advanced prosthetic and designs. But could they please do it with species that we do not already know how they look like? Yes, the Andorians were changed for ENT. But the change was rather minor, and Andorians aren’t as iconic as Klingons. Why not change the look of Vulcans too? They look exactly the same as they always used to, even though they are really just humans with different ears and eyebrows. At least Klingons looked alien…

    • kadajawi

      Well, but here we see a Mudd that is on the edge, unlike in TOS. In TOS we see him at his best. He is doing quite well, he has no reason to hate anyone, he’s doing absolutely fine.

      In Discovery we see a Mudd that has been left to die… to be punished, injured, and finally die. He could have been saved by the Federation, by Lorca, but he wasn’t. Just because. Here we see a Mudd that wants revenge. We see Mudd at his darkest, driven to his limits. And I can see the Mudd in TOS being like this, when pushed too far.

      • Snap

        I’m sorry, but Mudd wasn’t left behind “just because.” As far as Lorca was concerned, Mudd sold them out by smuggling their conversations to the Klingons.

        Whether Stuart was just using Mudd and Mudd had no idea about the monitoring device, all Lorca was aware of is that Stuart was Mudd’s “pet” and L’Rell threw his words back at him.

        The problem is not just that Mudd was a wanton murderer in the episode, but that he was a wanton murderer and took great enjoyment in his acts of murder knowing that there wouldn’t be any consequences for his actions because he can literally reset the sequence of events. What makes it even worse is he was ready to let Discovery rejoin the time stream so he could sell it to the Klingons and couldn’t care less that both Lorca and Tyler were dead. It was only when Burnham gave him a better idea and killed herself which forced Mudd to hit reset.

        In TOS, Mudd may be a misogynist scumbag criminal, but I can’t see him taking such pleasure in killing anyone and everyone who may stand in his way.

        • Aaron

          A small nit to pick, but an important one nonetheless, in the next to last loop Lorca was not killed but sent to the brig.

        • Aaron

          Also, the reason Mudd was okay with this wanton killing was precisely because he new it wouldn’t stick. Imagine being able to do something, anything, not only without consequence but without it ever really happening in the first place – doing some not so good things would be rather tempting. For example, for whatever reason I’ve always just wanted to plow my car into a bunch of other parked cars – no idea why, just seems like something that could feel very cathartic. I would NEVER do it, but if I could do it, and then simply hit a redo button…well it would be very tempting. And this is coming from a law abiding good person. Now imagine you’re a conman, and a generally shady individual – the thought of being able to kill someone and then undo has to be very tempting.

        • kadajawi

          It was a terrible idea leaving Mudd behind no matter what. If Mudd was a Klingon spy, then… yeah, maybe you’d want to have the spy with you for questioning?! Like, to acquire crucial information in the war effort? And if Mudd was innocent, well, he was innocent, and Lorca was morally obliged to help him. Even if he was a jerk.

          Mudd was justified in hating Lorca. Was killing him 53 times for that maybe a bit much? Yes, sure. But I can see someone with low morals (which Mudd clearly is) do that. We also see him justify his actions over and over again, so in his mind, killing Lorca was absolutely justified.

    • TUP

      Im not sure why some have trouble with this. They see a character in two episodes of a 60’s TV show and feel like thats ALL there is to that character. Its not. THIS Mudd is the SAME Mudd so everything we see in Discovery encompasses that character too.

      I see no issues.

      Because he’s less “crazy” later? He’s just as vile. Perhaps his time in institutions allowed him to control his wilder behavior and he focused on “smaller” crimes. Like selling women into slavery.

  • Aaron

    Technically Mudd didn’t really murder anyone, since in the final loop no one was killed (as far as we saw). I can imagine his defense had he been arrested, “How could I have murdereed anyone if they’re all still alive?!”

    With that being said, he did get off way, way to easily. Whether he murdered anyone or not, he did try to take over the ship…that’s gotta violate at least one UFP law 😉

    • Yeah he got off super light, but it was a very TOs style ending.

    • Victorinox

      Agreed, Mudd didn’t kill anyone on that last time loop.

      However, they did let him walk away with intimate knowledge of the Federation’s greatest weapon. How does that make any sense?

      Stamets revealing his importance made no sense. Burnham could’ve simply outed herself before that point to distract Mudd and prevent him from continuing to try to figure out how the ship works. The rest of the plot would have fitted nicely, and Mudd would’ve walked away without discovering the secret of Discovery.

      On the other hand, maybe Mudd’s the reason the ship is destroyed, and the tech doesn’t go beyond this show 🙂

    • Mo

      “Technically, it isn’t embezzlement if I put the money back before anyone notices.”

      There’s no “technically” or “whether.” Mudd’s a murderer who caused death and suffering in dozens of timelines that he created and abandoned.

      • Aaron

        Yes, but those timelines no longer exist. To go with your example, technically it isn’t embezzlement if the money was never stolen in the first place. Again, I’m not saying Mudd is innocent, nor should he have gotten off essentially scott free, but there’s no way to actually prove he killed people in timelines that no longer exist.

        • Mo

          Depends on which time-travel theory you subscribe to. TNG has already shown us evidence that there are effectively an infinite number of them. Every time Mudd jumped back, he created a new one.

          And I’m not talking about meeting the burden of proof. I’m talking about the fact that Mudd caused suffering and death, even if the only one who remembers what he did is Stamets.

          • Spin-El

            by this logic we’ve all committed murder in some timeline so we should all should be in prison for murder. I think the point is that you can’t charge someone for something done in another timeline that was created and erased. It never happened, from this timelines perspective.

          • Mo

            Again, depends on which time-travel theory you believe is valid. Go back and watch TNG 710, “Parallels.” Given how often Trek has by now dabbled with crossovers of characters between times and universes, I’d say you’re looking for excuses to go easy on Mudd. He remembers everything he did, has no qualms about any of it, and he’d do it again.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallels_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

            http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s7/7×11/parallels351.jpg

          • JP

            Few people truly understand this. You are correct. Trek has been inconsistent, to say the least, in terms of how it handles the implications of time travel & many universes.

          • Mo

            I’d say there’s a good reason this episode title includes the word “magic.” It’s more or less whatever the writer’s team needs at the moment (or has the budget to depict), in whatever series we’re discussing.

          • Oddly, it is based off real world science. Which is more than most trek tech.

          • Spin-El

            I agree it depends on which time-travel theory you go by. I’m just saying that if you say there’s an infinite number of timelines, then you by default have murdered somebody in one of them, so does that mean we should all be in prison for murder? But then again is it a different you in each timeline so its not comparable to this situation because Mudd was the same Mudd in each timeloop he created, but then you get back to the fact that these timelines were erased so did they ever really happen….AHHHHHH, time travel is too complicated!!!

          • Mo

            Our species should probably never be allowed to use it.

          • Spin-El

            I think current situations in our society make it quite obvious our civilization is nowhere near ready to have the power to manipulate time.

          • Trek does not do this. The Kelvin “timeline” is a parallel universe that Spock and Nero just happen to have time traveled in, when they jumped realities. There are far, far, far too many changes from a single time event.

            Altering time in trek, does not create a new reality, it changes your current reality. You do not jump realities by time travelling. If you did so, you could never change time.

          • Spin-El

            I’m not sure where your idea that “Altering time in Trek, does not create a new reality” comes from? Is this a written rule somewhere? (I’m actually curious, not being a jerk :)) Especially since this is technology that Mudd obtained. Who knows how this tech actually works.

            And I’m not actually saying I think what Mudd did created new realities, In my last post I was in part responding to Mo’s previous comment, and in part just being silly to show time travel is complicated.

            I guess my point is that when it comes to time travel anything goes, even in Trek. Debating the certainties of time travel is pointless since even physicists can’t really comprehend it. The only thing that matters in a time travel episode is the writing, and this episode was obviously great writing since it turned out so well. Time travel so early on in the series is risky, and DSC did a great job with it.

          • The fact that it does not work this way in trek. We have seen time travel and even had it investigated. It changes that time line, it does not make a new one. The whole “temporal cold war” and more or less every time travel episode ever done is pointless if you can’t change time.

          • Spin-El

            Oh I agree you can change time in Trek, I’m not arguing that. I think our disagreement is simple semantics. I may have been loosely using the term timeline and timeloop in my previous post when I said Mudd was creating timeloops and then erasing those “timelines” as if he was creating realities, when he was in fact just reseting the same timeline back to the same point over and over again.

            And since I can’t think of an example where a reality (new timeline) was created in an episode, I guess we can agree that its not really possible in Trek (although who knows if by using this time crystal it actually creates new timelines that continues on separate from the timeline the show is in haha)

          • Most of the confusion comes from the name “Kelvin timeline” as it makes it seem that changing a single event can make a new reality. Which is not how it really works in trek, I think we are pretty much on the same page.

          • Trek has always used the same type pf time travel( other than the JJ movies) the type Mudd used is classic star trek.

    • Starshipdown

      …Which fits right perfectly in with how lightly the guy got off in TOS and TAS after he peddled drugs, got the Enterprise badly damaged after running from them, then tried to sell the women he had to the dilithium miners and use them to force Kirk to let Mudd go and then later Mudd tried to sell out the Enterprise to a bunch of alien androids. Oh and kidnapping and endangerment of Christine Chapel.

  • Aaron

    Posted this in the spoiler discussion, figured I’d repost it here:

    Something has been bugging about the show, and this episode finally made me realize what it is – there’s been a lot of talk about the Klingons War, but very little actually shown of the war. As such, the opening at the party (and subsequent loops of said party) felt disingenuous. Tyler’s talk of those who we’ve lost, and about how these are soldiers letting off steam and what not, all rang hollow as we’ve only been told about the war, but rarely shown it’s effects.

    With that being said, this was a very fun and enjoyable episode, and next weeks looks to be delving into the war a bit more. The show continues to grow on me each passing week.

    • Robert Karma

      Preview for a future episode showed some heavy duty battles going on with several Federation ships getting pounded. So I believe the visceral impact of fighting the Klingons will be felt in that episode.

      • Matthew Burns

        Probably a big cliffhanger for Episode 9. It’ll be a long 7 or 8 weeks!

    • Eric Cheung

      DS9 kind of got the same criticism, but then, it seems pretty realistic to show what people do when not in a fight for their lives. M*A*S*H did that we’ll, and so did DS9. Since the station, the Defiant, and the USS Discovery are involved in more strategic missions than just cannon fodder, they probably see fewer battles anyway.

      • Aaron

        The big difference with DS9 was that the Dominion War wasn’t the focus from the get go. The Dominion wasn’t even mentioned until season 2, and then there was another 2+ seasons of build up before the actual war broke out. As such the war stories themselves felt far more earned, and the toll the war took on people was shown first hand (The Siege of AR-558 was a brilliant episode).

        Discovery, on the other hand, started with the war breaking out, and then jumped 6 months into the future with already 8000 people dead – none of which we saw. As far as the USS Discovery itself goes, we’ve seen it in one very brief battle against the Klingons in the 4th episode when it came to the aid of Corvan II – and then additional battles were simply mentioned in the next episode. And finally, in this latest episode we learn that the Discovery has turned the tide of the war…and still have barely witnessed anything of the war! I’m not saying every episode needs to be a gritty war story, but we need to see something to actually care about the war.

        • Eric Cheung

          Wars are far more than battles though. Pretty much every story but this one was one that only works in the context of a war, including “Lethe.” We’ve seen wartime conscription of a convict, an arms race and rescue based on the relative technologies of belligerents, prisoners of war, espionage, diplomatic peace talks being hijacked. And even this story is at least motivated by the war. I’d say levity is quite well-earned at this point. I’d also say that I can’t think of a single long-form story I’ve ever seen that didn’t at least have some humor.

    • kadajawi

      To be honest, the less we see of the Klingons, the better it is. Can the Klingon war just go away, along with the Klingons, never to be seen or mentioned again? I thought showing this part of history was interesting, but the way they absolutely effed up the Klingons in every way, shape and form possible (not just the looks) just wants to make me forget they exist. Whenever I see Klingons, I dislike the show more. Whenever I don’t see them, I like it more.

      I already expect to dislike the next episode, if they feature Klingons.

      • Matthew Burns

        Problem is that we are not invested fully in the characters like we will be by the, say, end of the second season, going into third season. We as viewers need to get to know the characters. The klingon war is a distraction to our getting to know our characters at this stage in the shows life.

        • kadajawi

          But DS9 season 1 and 2 have been the weak point of the show.

          It’s possible to get to know the characters even when a war is going on. Plus there’s not much war happening anyway.

    • JP

      Yeah… serious question – is there actually a war happening? Or is it more like “hostilities”?

      • Matthew Burns

        In WW2 there is a period of time, between September 1939 and February or March 1940 when fighting was rather low key, as far as Britain was concerned, who were officially at War with Germany. It was nicknamed the ‘ phony war ‘.

  • Robert Karma

    My favorite episode of Discovery yet. I like how the crew is finally meshing and connecting. Harry Mudd was delicious as the loopy time trippin’ villain of this episode. Interesting how Mudd found himself bored with killing Lorca after doing so 50+ times. Nice to see that humans can have their blood lust sated with repeated exposures to violence and murder. A very well-paced and enjoyable episode that actually advanced the narrative for several of our characters.

    • Matthew Burns

      It also sort of shuts up those fans who worried that every episode would be exclusively the main Klingon war arc. This episode is its own thing and its own story.

  • pittrek

    The best episode so far. However I’d still prefer if it wasn’t Mudd but a completely new character

  • mr joyce

    “Star Trek is about open mindedness. What I find entertaining about Star Trek fans is that whenever something different appears in Star Trek, there’s always a massive reactionary response. Fans like the status quo, yet fail to understand that the status quo in Trek is about change. Every iteration of Trek was meant to be different from the others before.

    Change upsets comfort, and that’s the purpose behind this series: how far can we be pushed out of our comfort zone in appreciating the values that Trek has to offer us? After all, the title of the series is based after one of the oldest concepts of variety that Trek had to offer us and that was back in 1968”

    A quote I picked out from the article on the new ‘trek comics boldly go #13’ comic on this site. It’s got some good points for us all to remember, and might go some way towards ending a lot of the pointless arguing and bitching which goes on on these message boards. :-p

  • Eric Cheung

    In the previous post, I was extremely careful with my word order. I said it was the “first filmed Star Trek story without a death.” I didn’t say it was the “first Star Trek story without a filmed death.” The former means the death didn’t stick. The latter means the death wasn’t filmed.

    • Mo

      Regardless of your hair-splitting, murder was depicted. Timeline resets notwithstanding, Mudd caused suffering, pain, and death of hundreds of people in timelines that, while no longer the one this show depicts, still exist elsewhere.

      And had Mudd succeeded, he’d have had no qualms about killing almost anyone to finish the job. Again.

      • Eric Cheung

        Mudd cared as much about the pain and suffering in the short term as Stamets and, particularly, Burnham did (or Phil Connors in Groundhog Day). All of them understood that it was a video game until they escaped a loop, and played by those rules.

        • Mo

          Where did you get that impression? Mudd reveled in killing Lorca, repeatedly. He thought nothing of inflicting all that death, and would have killed again in the final moment if needed. He is a mass-murderer.

          It was only a video game to nerds watching the show.

          • kadajawi

            But Mudd wanted revenge. Hate makes people do bad things. Plus, Mudd always was a terrible, terrible character, even when he was played for laughs. Here he isn’t, thus the darker tone works.

          • Mo

            This Mudd creates his own backstory for motivation, and is probably capable of far worse than we saw. I’m arguing with someone who doesn’t think anything Mudd did counted.

          • kadajawi

            Well, I do think what he did counted. And Mudd is a con man. Always was, always will be. The tonal shift between the Mudd here and TOS Mudd is much smaller than that between Klingons here vs any other ST Klingon. I’m more willing to accept this, and I can see it actually happen.

            Anyway, while we have never seen Mudd kill before (as in pulling the trigger…), he was willing to leave the crew stranded (IIRC). And he was never in the situation where killing would have been beneficial to his goals. In DSC we see him left behind on a gruesome prison ship, where he could have been saved. Basically… we never saw him as angry and full of hate as in this episode.

          • Mo

            We never found out how Leo Francis Walsh “passed away suddenly,” either.

  • TUP

    Things like using an Andorian Helmet is an example of small things this series is getting right.

    • I was not a fan of the helm. The “horn” placement majes no sense

      • Keith Melton

        Where else would an Andorian stick his antennae?

      • Radically changing the Klingons is acceptable but moving the antennae of Andorians by few centimeters is not?

        • Its already been moved, that was the point, this helm will not fit any andorin in the last 40 years or so.

      • scotchyscotchscotch

        You’re entitled to your own opinions, but I ask you, does every baseball cap on earth fit your head?

        • I do not have antenna that must fit. Its like a gas mask with the breather on the forhead.

      • Quonk

        Why it fits the placement of TOS Andorians’ antennae. And maybe those extensions are are meant to be flexible, who knows.They’re ribbed after all.

        • For 40+ years those antenna have not been in that spot. We are no longer using TOS black face either.

          • Victorinox

            I don’t understand why this is a problem. The antenna positions shown in TOS vs TNG or ENT are not mutually exclusive.

          • Yeah, they are. Human organs do not move. It was a simple make up change, in TOS it was a part of the wig that was mounted to the back of the skull. Post TOS it was not as they had other ways to do it that did not look so fake.

            Much like the klingons, there was never a need to explain simple make up changes. There are not 4 Andorian genders, Not sub races with different antenna. It was a simple make up change. They changed it in the movies and other than that really, really odd version in TNG, its been constant since.

          • Melllvar

            You’re nitpicking. This is a very insignificant point.

          • No, I am not. I am pointing out the helm will not work for the race its supposedly made for.

          • FrostUK

            Yes it will.

          • No, it will not. They are in the wrong spot.

  • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

    I’ll just say poor Anthony Rapp, tons of sympathy for him for having to carry something like that around for years.

    • GhostLoveScore

      Why do you think that he hates it? Did he say anything? I don’t remember hearing it in After Trek.

      • He accused somone of sexuarlly assulting him when he was 14.

        • GhostLoveScore

          wait, I was thinking Tom Cruise was talking about his character being that silly.

      • Fiery Little One

        It’s not something he’d bring up on After Trek unless he was asked.

        • GhostLoveScore

          I misunderstood some things, I thought that Tom Cruise said something about Rapp having to act silly in the Discovery for the next few years.

          • Fiery Little One

            Fair enough.

  • Havenbull

    So Stella is rich, hot, and is infatuated with Mudd… and he doesn’t want to marry her why???

    • Keith Melton

      She is shrill, controlling and an overall pain in the ass IIRC from Mudd’s TOS appearances.

      Rich and hot isn’t the end all be all of a relationship. Try not being shallow sometime.

      • Mo

        His caricatured android of her was shrill and controlling. Mudd recreates his own story every time he’s asked about it. All Stella needed to be was a stable influence, rooted in the Federation society he hates.

        • Starshipdown

          Do we even know that Stella android looks like what actual Stella does by the time of “I, Mudd”?

          • Mo

            Not really. If Mudd’s telling the story, you can be sure he’s lying about all or part of it. He’s not a reliable witness.

          • Snap

            Yeah, it also created the logic paradox which overloaded Norman, with Kirk telling him that everything Harry says is a lie and then Mudd telling him “I am lying.”

          • Snap

            I would tend to think the android would look like Stella as it was not Mudd himself who created it, but the androids on the planet. That is, of course, based on the assumption that Mudd would have a photo of Stella with him, which would be suspect considering how much energy he spends trying to get away from her.

            But, assuming her appearance is accurate, I would also imagine Mudd would have added in some caricatured embellishments to ensure the android didn’t pain Stella in a positive light.

          • TUP

            It would make sense for the android to look like her. Not as fun telling someone to shut up if they bear no resemblance to the object of your derision.

            Even though the Stella android looked older, interestingly the actors playing TOS and Discovery Stella were ten years apart when they appeared (and the episodes were aprox ten years apart).

            I assume thats why Discovery cast a late 20’s actress. I would have gone a bit older just because Wilson is older and the old man/young woman thing in Hollywood is especially creepy.

            Off topic, but I saw Jimmy Fallon with guest Millie Bobbi Brown and I was actually creeped out a bit. I get the impression he knows her. But still…his fawning over her was a bit much especially with her done up to look much older than 13 (she acts older too, she’s very charming, charismatic and pretty and I’d be keeping her as far away from Hollywood men as I could if I were her parents).

      • Havenbull

        LOL at being shallow. You must be a dork who’s been burned by a hottie once or twice. Sorry, didn’t know I triggered you.

    • mr joyce

      Lol.. good one..

      It’s probably because he’s more ‘turned on’ by the thrill of conning her and her family rather than the marriage itself

  • Alan Light

    TNG Encounter at Farpoint had no teaser opening either…so first episode since then, not the Cage.

    • Matthew Burns

      Voyager Scorpian Part 1 had a blink and almost miss it teaser with the cubes!

  • Denes House

    So, at the end of the episode we see Stella’s father’s ship veering away from the Discovery. Is that ship design taken from some other source? It looks weirdly familiar.

    • Snap

      There are some bits which resemble portions of the tail end of the Excelsior. It’s a very small portion of the ship, but maybe it’s just enough to evoke that “I’ve seen something like that before” feeling.

  • Trevor McWilliams

    I am enjoying the series and love Capt Lorca. However, last night was not one of my favs. I, too, am a child of the Original Series and the character I saw last evening had tidbits of the original Harcourt/Leo but the character I remember was definitely not a murderer. Yes, I understand the argument that he did not really murder with the ‘Groundhog Day’ in effect but he actually took joy in disintegrating people and various truly horrific ways. More importantly, the original Mudd was smart in a buffoon like way. A charismatic con-man. He was most definitely not a murderer…ever. I thought they debased the original character by even giving him a phaser. Harry didn’t need a phaser. That’s what was cool about him. Just because you update a character does not mean you have to add traits which were never there originally.

    • Killing is to far for a smuggling, drug pushing slaver?

      • Trevor McWilliams

        Did Han Solo kill innocents or bounty hunters trying to kill him? He was also a well known smuggler. Had he walked around killing men and women just to test out cool new weapons the audience might have had a very different view point about his character.

        Killing innocents is too far for Harry. And the Venus drug was not deadly and willingly taken by the ladies. They were not prisoners or slaves. Watch the old episode again. Eve tells Kirk exactly why she was with Harry. Nor did he beam about the Enterprise armed. He was smarter than that.

        • No, its not to far for Mudd, he sex trafficed drug addicted women and sold them. He is not a “lovable rogue”, he was a vile con man that TOS played off light.

          • Trevor McWilliams

            Just another pirate/murderer who really enjoys beaming humans into space and watching them wriggle in pain until they die, eh? Well, we’ll agree to disagree. You can certainly enjoy and appreciate Discovery’s Harry Mudd. I will appreciate Gene’s.

          • He would have killed kirk in a heart beat if he could have walked away from it.

          • A_Warrior_of_Marley

            You forgot about selling out the Enterprise and potentially the entire Federation to a bunch of alien androids.

          • Yeah, I think folks have some very tinted glasses on here. He was not a good guy, he just tried to charm and con his way out pf trouble.

            And keep in mind this is after his brain was rewired.

          • A_Warrior_of_Marley

            Plus in TAS, Mudd not only sells a bogus love potion to people, he kidnaps Nurse Chapel, steals a shuttlecraft, and puts people in great danger on a planet’s surface.

          • Yeah, this idea that he is harmless and “lovable” and not dangous is just not based off what we know of him.

          • Trevor McWilliams

            “Gene’s scammer, convicted smuggler, counterfeiter and human trafficker”
            (forced marriage is trafficking…the women were not forced…massive difference…) What about murderer? The actual point of the discussion. Was Gene’s character a murderer? Did he enjoy brutally murdering innocent people in various different ways? Watch Mudd’s Women again please. He was psychologically rehabilitated (disputed I grant you) for the crimes that were listed on the computer screen…not ever murder. You are literally comparing a snake oil salesman (Gene’s Harry) to what was shown on Discovery (a murderer who enjoys watching pain).

            But let’s see what Mr. Rainn Wilson says about his new character: ‘This Harry Mudd is kind of a reimagining or reinvention, in the same way that so many things have been reinvented,” Wilson said. “He’s a bit more dastardly than the original.’ (Source: http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/star-trek/266613/star-trek-discovery-harry-mudd-is-more-dastardly)

            I couldn’t agree more.

          • Mudd in TOS underwent a freaking mindwipe, what does one have to do to get that kinda punishment?

            And yes, it was freaking sex trafficking and slavery. He was not a snake oil salesmen, he was a slaver, a drug pusher, a smuggler and a thief.

          • Victorinox

            You mean the Gene’s scammer, convicted smuggler, counterfeiter and human trafficker (that’s right, he was trying to SELL women).

            Yeah, he was adorable. Just like Han Solo right? smh…

        • Victorinox

          Who said Mudd has to be like Solo? That is you assumption. Just because that franchise has a “good guy smuggler” doesn’t mean this one is the same.

        • TUP

          I didnt realise that Solo and Mudd were the same just because they were both smugglers. By the way, Solo did kill someone (he fired first).

    • Victorinox

      “Just because you update a character does not mean you have to add traits which were never there originally.”

      What? Of course that is exactly what that means. The writers are not only guardians of canon, but CREATORS of canon.

      As long as what they add does not directly contradict a fact established previously in other shows, they can do whatever they want. At no point in TOS it was said that Mudd isn’t capable of killing. That is your assumption.

      In fact, TOS established that he was sentenced to undergo “psychiatric treatment”, which can explain the change in attitude from the more serious Mudd we saw in DSC, to the buffoon we see later in TOS.

    • Matthew Burns

      No man or woman is without shades of grey.

      We dont know what happens to Mudd in the ten years between his appearance here and in the TOS episodes. People DO change and EVOLVE!

    • Aaron

      You have to remember that Lorca left him to rot in a Klingon prison – I imagine that would make anyone a bit blood thirsty. In addition, when Mudd finally had everything figured out, he didn’t kill anyone. I’m sure there was a part of Mudd, rightly or wrongly, who realized that all of these deaths would be erased after each loop.

    • TUP

      You cant say he was never a murderer. He was. We’ve seen it. Its not like we had a super intensive examination of Mudd’s character and history. To imply the traits on display in TOS were ALL Mudd was is rather silly.

      Besides, TOS established that he spent time in a psych ward. Perhaps he learned some coping skills and refrains from the more violent tendencies.

      • Trevor McWilliams

        Does every single character in 2017 have to be turned into a grittier sociopath? What we witnessed was a ‘reinvention’ (as noted by Rainn himself) of the character and not what was originally written. Rather silly? Really. How many villains received three episodes (two of TOS and one TAS) of Star Trek? I think those episodes nicely detailed the main characteristics of Harry Mudd and nowhere did I see that he was a sociopathic murderer (or even hinted at OR use a weapon for that matter). We also witnessed his quite detailed criminal record which did not contain anything close to murder. Perhaps he did learn coping skills. Perhaps Kirk and Spock ran a small consulting business on the side to improve starship operations. But none of those actions were detailed in the original characters’ development. If you like the ‘new’ Harry Mudd, cool. I prefer the charismatic villain who does not relish in murder for pleasure.

        • TUP

          To be fair, we didnt see Mudd on TOS who is THIS guy because TOS was ten years later. So to say he’s been turned into something isnt accurate.

          A more apt perception would be that he was altered by the time of TOS.

          As others have pointed out, he killed in this episode knowing he was going to keep resetting the time line. And he certainly seemed charismatic to me.

          By TOS, he has been altered by his experienced (we know he spends time in a mental institution).

          We can get upset if we look for reasons to say its too different. But if you look for reasons why it works, it does. Or dont look at all…just enjoy it!

          • Trevor McWilliams

            Well said

          • TUP

            Thank you, my friend. (disagreeing respectfully leads to good discussion!)

          • Snap

            Yeah, the Mudd thing can be a perplexing issue, especially as both he and Stella were portrayed with 60s stereotypes, with Mudd used for comic relief for the most part and “Stella” was way too over the top to be a believable character. I’d like to see how “analog” Stella develops. .

            A question was raised, I believe it was elsewhere, about whether it was really immoral for Mudd to murder Lorca and the crew of the Discovery because there were really no consequences due to the literal reset button. It should be noted that Mudd was perfectly content ending the loop with both Lorca and Tyler dead, so given the intent was there it doesn’t reflect well on Mudd.

            Anyway, I personally believe that not only the willingness to commit murder but the enjoyment Mudd gained from it all while knowing that it doesn’t count until Discovery rejoins the proper time stream is even worse than if he was just a cliche callous murderer, especially taking pleasure in killing Lorca as many times as he can. The eagerness and the sadistic enjoyment is the part I take the most umbrage with, but Rainn Wilson has mentioned that Mudd’s character has been tweaked somewhat for Discovery.

            While I’m not saying Rainn’s incarnation isn’t Mudd, I’m not sure I would want him to become like the TOS Mudd as, enjoyable as watching the character may be, I think the character can be more than just a bumbling scumbag criminal. I would just like to see less “serial killer” Mudd.

  • Fiery Little One

    Yeah, this was a fun one. I have no problems with some of the more controversial elements of this one because as far as Mudd goes, 10 years can change people. He could run into something that makes him never want to pick up a phaser ever again and, boom, we get the version we’re already familiar with.

    As for Lorca letting him go with Stella, well, daddy *is* an arms dealer. Who happens to have all of Mudd’s debts at the moment. He could make life *very* difficult for Harry without too much effort. Plus, although their marriage is implied to be relatively new, we all know what she’ll be like sooner or later.

    • Matthew Burns

      I strongly suspect we will see Mudd back again on the show before it ends.

      • Fiery Little One

        I do to. It’s just a question of how he gave them the slip.

    • Snap

      I was under the impression that they were not yet married, with Mudd claiming he took off to make himself worthy of her, as well as Baron Grimes saying Harry will make an “honest woman” out of Stella. I imagine the comment rose a lot of eyebrows and was a source of amusement from the fans, considering the personality and MO of one Harcourt Fenton Mudd.

      • Fiery Little One

        I might have misheard whether they were married at the time or not yet. The point still stands, his life is going to be miserable within 10 years time.

  • kadajawi

    I enjoyed this episode a lot. it’s fun, smart-ish, and well done. And it actually feels like Star Trek updated for 2017. Oh, and we don’t see Klingons. 🙂

    Dwight Schrute is simply great and does the character justice. On one hand I’d love to see him again, on the other I don’t think he should be overused. Maybe for season 2?

    Also, thank god no classical music for the party! Why wouldn’t they listen to music from the 20th century.

    I absolutely loved Mudd’s line “Your ship is surprisingly easy to destroy. It’s almost as if it’s a design fault.” Or something along those lines. How great is that? Yes for crying out loud, Federation ships are way too easy to destroy. They are full of design faults. Where are the fail safe systems? A nice meta moment. Interestingly Orville too, had such a meta moment the week before. The ship was hit, a console exploded, and fire had to be extinguished by hand… because the console that exploded was responsible for the automatic fire extinguishing system. I do prefer the meta moment in Discovery.

    Lorca did deserve being killed over and over again by Mudd, and Mudd was justified in hating Lorca. After all, Lorca left him to suffer a painful death. Lorcas actions in the prison episode weren’t justified. a) Ash could just as well be the spy… actually, more likely he was the spy. b) It doesn’t matter if Mudd was the spy or not: 1. Mudd is a spy, then he’d be a valuable asset for Starfleet intelligence. 2. Mudd is innocent… then… well, he’s innocent!

    I’m glad Discovery feels like Star Trek now, and that the quality keeps improving. I just wish we had never seen the early episodes, and that we don’t have to deal with the Klingons. They are easily, by far, the weakest part of the show. A bit like the Suliban, who also have simply disappeared. Just that the Suliban weren’t nearly as bad as the Klingons we see here. Oh, and these past few episodes seem pretty episodic, apart from the occasional cliffhanger-ish last scene.

    In comparison Orville also still feels like Star Trek, just more like 80s/90s Star Trek rather than 60s mixed with current TV. Also, Orville, too, improves, especially the humor (fewer bad jokes), but not as much as Discovery did (but then Orville started better in the first place). We should all simply be glad to have not one, but two Star Trek shows back on TV (if only both could be official). And to those who haven’t watched Orville recently, try it. At least if you are TNG fans. And watch it as TNG with a bit more humor, don’t expect a modern show from 2017. Or, in the last episode, TNG meets Black Mirror.

    • Snap

      You make good arguments for why Mudd should have been rescued from the prison and, certainly, from Mudd’s perspective he does have every right to hate Lorca. My question regarding the viability of Lorca taking Mudd along deals with the raiders themselves. From what little we saw of them, they seemed to be two man crafts. I am going off of memory, but I think when Saru was analyzing the situation, he noted that each raider would be occupied by two Klingons.

      Tyler also said that escaping was a “two man job” and whether that meant merely two men to deal with the Klingon jailers or escaping the ship itself. Could Lorca have been able to take Mudd along even if he was inclined to? Given what we know of Lorca thus far, if heh ad to choose between them, he would certainly choose Tyler.

      • TUP

        Is it Starfleet’s responsibility to rescue Mudd? I dont think it was Lorca’s. Mudd was not Starfleet. He was a criminal. Maybe the Klingons had a legitimate case against him (his father in law is an arms dealer). Was it said why the Klingons arrested him?

        It would have been illogical for Lorca to have taken Mudd with him when he did. And illogical to use Discovery to rescue him. Let’s assume Lorca reported that a human was in a Klingon prison (actually the existence and location of the prison ship was worth reporting as there were other prisoners, and they could have been human or Federation citizens).

        Just because they dont show us everything, doesnt mean nothing happens.

      • kadajawi

        I’m glad you agree that from Mudd’s perspective he has every right to hate Lorca… that’s why the already shady character can believably kill Lorca 53 times without contradicting with the character we see 10 years later.

        As for the 2 person ships… Lorca may not have known, or if he had, still, why not bring him along? It’s not like Mudd needs a comfortable seat. He might as well be placed somewhere on the ground in the ship, etc. He’s too valuable an asset to leave behind/too dangerous to leave behind. And Mudd didn’t seem to be a physical threat to either Lorca or Taylor. Also, there’s the possibility of Lorca manning one ship together with Mudd, and Taylor manning another… two ships are better than one.

        As a Federation captain Lorca should at least have tried to bring him along. If Mudd dies along the way, so be it. But leaving him behind?

  • Matthew Burns

    Just curious to know; Is Netflix releasing Episode 8 and 9 before January?

    I Ask because on my Netflix screen it says Next Episode released January 8th.
    I am gutted if this is true… !

    • Stephan Janssen

      Mine says Monday. (Netflix Germany)

  • Snap

    There’s only one part of the episode I cannot seem to reconcile. If the cycle being repeated is a period of 30 minutes and Mudd quickly gains control of the ship, how could the crew arrange for Stella to rendezvous with Discovery and in such an immediate manner? For that matter, how would Mudd be able to summon the Klingons just as quickly?

    We know Barron Grimes’s ship doesn’t have a spore drive and this isn’t the Kelvin timeline where warp travel times are fairly inconsequential.

    • TUP

      The only answer is, they were close!

  • TUP

    Orville was officially renewed for a second season. I didnt realize they only had a 13 episode order for Season 1. But it seems like ratings have stabilized which perplexes me seeing as how the show utterly sucks.

    But to each their own.

    One thing I enjoy about this site compared to others (and I enjoy others, dont get me wrong), another site seems like its being paid for coverage of Orville (which is weird since its not, you know, Star Trek) and it really brings in a lot of the “I hate Discovery so I LOVE Orville” folks.

    • Yeah, I do not get it either. I am happy it got reupped for the fans, but I will never find it a good or even funny show. Much less a trek show as its not.

  • Robert Anthony

    Holy fuck Ted Sullivan looks like Dwight Schultz.