After an uneven but nonetheless engaging two-episode opener, Star Trek: Discovery kicks its story into full gear with its third episode and unofficial ‘second pilot,’ “Context is for Kings,” which finds the disgraced Michael Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green) recruited to serve aboard the USS Discovery after being rescued from a doomed prison transport shuttle en route to Tellun.

Six months have passed since Burnham committed mutiny and essentially triggered the Federation-Klingon war. On Discovery, Burnham learns Captain Gabriel Lorca (Jason Isaacs) and scientist Lt. Paul Stamets (Anthony Rapp) is experimenting with a form of spores as a way to advance transport capabilities in space and potentially defeat the Klingons.

Burnham is given a chance to redeem herself (or at the very least, make herself more useful) as part of Lorca’s covert scientific mission.

Gabriel Lorca (Jason Isaacs) introduces himself to Michael Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green). (CBS)

By episode three, it’s pretty clear that Star Trek: Discovery isn’t your father’s Star Trek. The show is slicker, darker, and brimming with more character conflict than anything the series could muster during its Rick Berman years — its closest comparison in the franchise would perhaps be Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

It’s also enveloped in an ever-present haze of mystery, a trait that is only amplified by telling the episode almost exclusively from the point of view of Burnham, who tries to unravel the machinations of Discovery’s mission.

As new as Discovery feels, there’s something also refreshingly familiar about it as well. Bringing a character with a checkered or damaged past aboard a series starship as a way to redeem themselves or find renewed purpose is certain nothing new to Star Trek. Think back to The Next Generation and Voyager with characters like Tom Paris, Ensign Ro, and Tam Elbrun, the troubled Betazoid from the terrific TNG episode “Tin Man.”

Burnham looks for a seat in the USS Discovery’s mess hall. (CBS)

There are certainly other character examples out there. Star Trek always seemed willing to give bad people a second chance — particularly if their skills were appropriate to a important mission. Discovery is the first to switch the point-of-view to one of these damaged, non-command-level characters and craft a series that follows their journey to some kind of redemption.

Or is it? Instead, does Discovery have a less-obvious and darker purpose for Burnham?

It’s still way too early to tell where Burnham’s character will end up. How far does the rabbit hole go down for her? As she points out in the episode’s closing moments, sometimes up can be down. Burnham’s path ahead could lead anywhere.

After a rather shaky introduction in “The Vulcan Hello” — marked by a clumsy, talky, and awkwardly-directed exchange with Captain Georgiou on its desert planet opening — Burnham has emerged as a truly fascinating and layered character. Sonequa Martin-Green deserves an enormous amount of credit for the heft she brings to the role.

Burnham works next to Cadet Tilly (Mary Wiseman) in Discovery’s engineering bay. (CBS)

It’s easy to dismiss Cadet Tilly (Mary Wiseman) as Discovery’s first irritating character; I kept getting flashbacks to Ensign Sonya Gomez, another nervous and eager-to-please-to-the-point-of-nausea character for TNG’s second season. It’s going to be interesting to watch her relationship with Burnham evolve.

It seems obvious that Burnham is being set up as a potential mentor to help tame her nervous tendencies and grow into a leader and future captain that she wants to be. As long as Discovery keeps its eye on the ball and not get too mired in its war story at the expense of its characters’ personal journeys, we will have a truly winning series that offers something new while staying true to the humanistic spirit of Star Trek.

Kudos needs to be given to director Akiva Goldsman, who improves upon the jarring and inconsistent pairing of David Semel and Adam Kane, who helmed the first two episodes. To give Discovery a pass, it’s not uncommon for a new Star Trek series to start out not exactly knowing how it should look, or even sound — a problem The Next Generation wrestled with for its first few years.

Michael Burnham contemplates life aboard the USS Discovery. (CBS)

Goldsman gets pretty close, finding a look that at least services “Context” adequately. Composer Jeff Russo also keeps the music appropriately mysterious and spooky.

As a story that’s essentially a single link in a much larger chain, “Context” is difficult to review on the merit of its singular plot. Beyond Burnham’s decision to stay aboard Discovery, there’s no real resolution offered. Of course, that’s the intent.

It will be interesting to see where things progress. On the whole, “Context is for Kings” offers an engaging setup for the much larger story to follow, with compelling character introductions and dense moral and ethical implications that promise a none-too-easy period of adjustment for Burnham as the USS Discovery’s newest crew member.

Star Trek: Discovery returns this Sunday with episode four: “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry.” Watch for our ongoing Canon Connections series to continue later this week as we look for the ties to Trek‘s past in this most recent episode!

Rob Heyman is a freelance journalist and entertainment critic. He is a regular contributor to both TrekCore and The Logbook, where he has written episode reviews of Star Trek: The Next Generation, Voyager, and the Star Trek movies.

  • The Science Fiction Oracle

    Best Trek episode since the DS9 finale!

    • I agree, it was amazing! I loved it!

    • Jesus Christ

      You and shannon smith were my only friends. Now I hang on the cross.

    • grandadmiralbinks

      I wish I could feel you.

    • pittrek

      I agree, but just because I thought the second half of the DS9 finale was crap.

  • Matt Hansen

    See, I didn’t get flashbacks to Sonya Gomez with Tilly at all. Yes, she has her personal shortcomings, and yes, she’s a new recruit and eager to do a good job, but they’ve shown with her first appearance what other “green” characters have failed to attain until years on (or never, in the case of Harry Kim)

    Unlike Gomez, or Kim, or Hoshi during her first few years, Tilly is young, not as experienced, but is shown to be a COMPETENT member of the team and unafraid (at least in the immediate sense) in carrying out her duties. On the landing party, she didn’t constantly scream or ask every 5 minutes if she could return to Discovery. She didn’t constantly prattle on about a boyfriend or fiancee she left at home to join the war effort. After the landing party mission, she didn’t constantly ruminate to say that she kept “seeing” the red shirt who was killed by the creature.

    Yes, she has her personal foibles, some of which may seem off-putting. But in a way she reminds me more of O’Brien than Gomez. The person who is the easiest to identify with. She’s far more endearing, and I think she has way more potential to grow.

    • Yep, she was green but solid.

      • Jesus Christ

        DC FOREVER AND SHANE HAD A CHANCE TO BE NICE TO ME BUT ARE PRICKS AND RUDE PEOPLE DON’T TRUST THEM. 206982=680

    • JP

      Definitely not an O’Brien… he was a badass from the start. She’s half Sonia Gomez / half Bashir. He was a super naive fresh pup when we first met him. “Frontier medicine!”

      Her character was totally out of contrast with the episode (which I generally enjoyed) and took me out of it. She’s at risk of being a played-out trope and I hope they put a unique spin on her somehow. Odds are she dies or becomes a battle-hardened badass and we go on that journey with her… either are predictable. Goofy young fresh recruit that the lead character gets to know so that we can get to know more about the main character while they talk is nothing new on the face of it.

      Other than that I enjoyed this episode, and I am finding that as long as I don’t think of the series as Star Trek, I can enjoy it on its own merits. I’m not sure if that’s a good or bad thing for the health of the franchise overall, but it works for me. If I try to pretend this is happening while Spock is joining Starfleet it all falls apart.

      I do know that they’ve pigeon-holed themselves story-wise with this organic travel plotline, because we all know it ain’t gonna happen. So either it’s a front for some other nefarious plot (hopefully) or Michael discovers they are sentient and travelling that way kills them and has to opppose Lorca blah blah (predictable).

      • Snap

        I share many of the opinions you’ve stated and just because I don’t buy it as Pike-era “prime” Trek (not merely on aesthetics, as there are numerous subtle cues calling back to TOS and TOS could easily be updated to comparable production values without compromising its identity) it doesn’t demean Discovery in any way, nor does it mean it isn’t “legitimate” Trek.

        “Context Is For Kings” was, most definitely a far better episode than the Star Trek: Shenzhou one shot from last week. Taking the Shenzhou story into consideration as well, there are portions of tech which, no matter how one spins it, is far too advanced for the time period, such as the Earth: Final Conflict-like gesture manipulated holographic HUD seen when Burnham was engaged in her task. While scaled back from the “Force Ghost” communication from Shenzhou, the communication Stamets was having with Strall, while interesting in concept, was just goofy in execution.

        While the shuttlebay force fields may be just a bit too early for the time period (the Enterprise-A had them, didn’t she?) it’s something I can overlook as “new tech” as Discovery is apparently a slightly new design than the Constitution class. But warp capable shuttles? Too early, as not even starbases had that capability a decade later. But, I should reiterate, this and other critiques only apply if we are supposed to believe this takes place during “Cage”-era TOS, as the only way to rationalize the inconsistencies is with non-canonical “what if” arguments. Taken on its own, it all works quite well, even if it may not be some peoples’ cup of tea.

        But on the flip side, the data cards are an excellent update to the TOS incarnation and really should have been done this way during the Enterprise mirror episode. The mess hall was also very TOS-like, with the food synthesizers and their data card access. Instead of the brightly coloured cubes the crew often ate in TOS, here there are brightly coloured plates and glasses, as well as the food itself. For those who hate 60s aesthetics, what are the opinions on the 60s style chairs in the Discovery mess hall?

        I still wouldn’t say my thumbs have gone “up” but they have risen somewhat to a west north-west level (or, east north-east if you’re using your left hand). It’s promising, but still too early to tell.

        • Slybrarian

          “But warp capable shuttles? Too early, as not even starbases had that capability a decade later. ”

          Someone better tell that to Kirk, because he chased after the Enterprise at warp on a shuttle in “The Menagerie”.

          • Keith Melton

            I think at this point people need to accept that TOS had many inconsistencies between episodes. By this prequel route, we can fix those issues and just roll with the punches if something contradicts.
            But as to Shuttles not being warp capable…why wouldn’t they be? why be designed with nacelles if those are just impulse drives? Short range warp and probably no faster than warp 2, but even a Class F shuttle could do warp. No reason that tech from 10 years earlier couldn’t as well.

          • Matt Hansen

            All this crying about canon inconsistencies…to me it just isn’t important. What matters is the storytelling and the characters.

            If we really wanted to stick to canon, they shouldn’t even be namedropping the Federation. They should be calling themselves the United Earth Space Probe Agency. Burnham should be referring to her upbringing and Sarek as “Vulcanian.” The Discovery should be able to go past Warp 12. They shouldn’t even have subspace radio.

            Equally as overrated for me is whether something is “original” or not. There’s not a whole lot in entertainment that is wholly “original,” and certainly not in Star Trek. That’s not Trek’s fault. Whenever you have over 700 hours worth of stories in both TV and movies, I daresay it’s nearly impossible to find a story that is wholly original.

            The judgment of quality should be the ride we take as the writers tell the story. So far, for me, Discovery is succeeding on all fronts in that department.

          • Keith Melton
          • AmiRami

            The one piece of canon that Discovery (and ENT) clearly broke is “women can’t be captains”. And I am glad they broke it because that was the STUPIDEST thing TOS ever did.

          • TUP

            Most people simply accept that the woman who made that remark to Kirk was either 1) crazy and had manufactured an untrue scenario and/or 2) she meant his “world of Starship Captains” that didnt include women was referring to him personally. ie. as a Captain, HE specifically had no room for a serious relationship.

          • AmiRami

            I never heard that but I like that explanation much better.

          • AmiRami

            Ya know the funny thing is, shuttles have always had nacells. But Nacels were never about Impulse power. They were only used for creating a warp field

          • Perplexum

            Who says that you cannot travel slower than light speed with a warp field, tho?

          • AmiRami

            I suppose? But the whole point of Warp is to bend space. It seems like kind of a waste of energy to bend an area of space that is less than a light year. But I suppose it has been done before in DS9 where they traveled at Warp within a solar system.

          • Perplexum

            Well you can only travel as fast as one quarter of lightspeed with an Impuls drive, so if you want to go faster, like for example 50% of light speed, you need a warp drive. Maybe the shuttles have a very rudimentary warp drive just to reach those velocities but still can’t reach light speed. There is also the problem of time dilation when you travel at impuls for too long.

          • AmiRami

            fair enough. For me personally I always believed that Shuttles were capable of true warp (say 1 or 2) but for MUCH shorter periods of time. Kinda like how a Motorcycle can go 100’s of miles at 100 mph but an electric bike maxes out at 30 or 40 mph for like 20 miles.

          • Snap

            While someone better tell you that when reporting that they were being pursued by a shuttlecraft, Lieutenant Hansen told Spock “at their speed, they’ll never catch us” while, aboard the shuttle, Commodore Mendez tells Kirk the Enterprise is “pulling ahead of us fast.”

            Furthermore, the meandering speed of the shuttlecraft is a pretty good indication that it is not travelling at warp, particularly when the parallax of the stars doesn’t change when the shuttle exhausts its fuel and coasts.

            The description of the shuttle which the computer reports to Spock gives it an “ion drive” not a “warp drive.”

            Are facts taken from the episode itself not sufficient?

      • Jesus Christ

        DC FOREVER AND SHANE HAD A CHANCE TO BE NICE TO ME BUT ARE PRICKS AND RUDE PEOPLE DON’T TRUST THEM.2 2-68268

    • Carl

      I’ve seen some speculate they may be playing her as being on the autism spectrum, giving some of her specific behavioural ticks a reason other than her being the comic relief, but are avoiding the phrase itself so far.

      Personally, I think that she has the potential to be incredibly annoying but they played their cards just right with her in this episode – nervous and chattery as heck when meeting someone new, calm and confident on the away team (the “You in the shadows!” part showed the command officer she has the potential to become very well) and more down to earth in her last scene with Michael.

      They wisely only went with the funny/hyper stuff in that first sequence and largely left it out of the rest (with just a hint of it when she sees A Real Book).

      • Jesus Christ

        DC FOREVER AND SHANE HAD A CHANCE TO BE NICE TO ME BUT ARE PRICKS AND RUDE PEOPLE DON’T TRUST THEM. 2-608268=

    • prometheus59650

      Bashir was infinitely more grating for the entire first season.

      • Jesus Christ

        DC FOREVER AND SHANE HAD A CHANCE TO BE NICE TO ME BUT ARE PRICKS AND RUDE PEOPLE DON’T TRUST THEM. 2626

        • prometheus59650

          You do not exist.

    • Jesus Christ

      DC FOREVER AND SHANE HAD A CHANCE TO BE NICE TO ME BUT ARE PRICKS AND RUDE PEOPLE DON’T TRUST THEM. 2-T628U-

    • I thought Tilly was a great idea on the writers’ part, because she’s such a marvelous contrast to Burnham; she’ll really help to point up what’s going on with Burnham.

      Burnham is an experienced officer who’s had her whole world collapse on her, she’s full of guilt and self-blame, and she’s also been thrown under the bus by Starfleet. (Yes, she did commit mutiny, and she did deserve to be court-martialed for that. But she didn’t START the freaking war; Starfleet is scapegoating her.) Contrast that with Tilly’s young, gung-ho enthusiasm, and the script practically writes itself. 🙂

      I notice that they cast an actress who’s physically the opposite of Burnham — she’s redheadly pale, has long hair, and has a roundish face, so the contrast in their characters and situations is brought home to us all the more by the contrast in their physical appearance.

      One guesses that Tilly herself may be sadder but wiser by the time Burnham — and the writers — are done with her. 🙂

  • IMO this was a really strong episode. I was already hooked, but this one got me fired up hard core for more.

    • Jesus Christ

      You and The Science Fiction Oracle were my only friends. Now I hang on the cross.

  • The Science Fiction Oracle

    Hopefully Stamets didn’t take a shortcut and use proto-matter?

    bud-a-bing! 😉

    • I thought of that, too. 🙂

  • Thomas Elkins

    It’s funny that the Discovery’s sister ship suffered a terrible fate. Reminded me of all those times the Enterprise encountered a fellow Constitution-class that also suffered a terrible fate.

    • Seems to be a common theme in Trek. The E ran across others Galaxies like that as well.

      • Jesus Christ

        You and The Science Fiction Oracle were my only friends. Now I hang on the cross. w;to2[tu[hn

    • JP

      I always figured it’s a way to save $$. Yamato, Defiant, Empok Nor, etc…

      • AmiRami

        well it was. But it became canon because of it!! Thats why there were so many galaxy class ships and Excellsior class and Reliant class ships were in DS9.

    • Locutus

      I think it is a combination of a money saver and a good plot element … a win-win. It’s like wandering around a haunted version of your own house. It also drives home the feeling that a “similar fate awaits you.”

      • ¡ zer0 !

        It was a letdown every time Enterprise D ran across another ship and it suffered a fate. You get that realisation ” oh its one of THESE episodes “.

        But yeh it was funny how in TNG – every time another federation ship rendezvoused with Enterprise D – it was *always* an Excelsior class.

      • I love your analogy of a haunted version of your own house; that’s a great way of explaining how a sister ship ups the creepiness factor of whatever has gone wrong.

      • scotchyscotchscotch

        great point

  • When I first saw Star Trek as a young lad, I thought to myself, now this is pod racing! Now when I see this episode I think to myself, now this is REAL Star Trek again! I love it.

    • Jamie Thomas

      Which Star Trek are you referring to as pod racing?
      Is pod racing meant as a compliment or an insult?

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      Now you are starting to sound a bit like Paul Walker?

  • Fiery Little One

    About Tilly, elsewhere I read an article where the writer speculated that maybe she’s autistic, or at least somewhere on that spectrum. I think it’s too early to tell at this point, but I think it’s an interesting thought.

    As for others… I’m sure Lorca and Landry are the only 2 on the ship that know what the *real* deal is. I also find there’s something about Landry that puts me on my back foot, and she didn’t need to say a word for me to start thinking so.

    • Snap

      Based on other characters I have seen which are autistic and, granted, these are fictional characters written to portray various forms of autism, I’m not so sure Tilly would fit under that description. If she is autistic, then she is extremely high functioning. I will have to watch the episode again, but she mentioned her special needs and specifically mentioned her allergies and why it mattered which bed she had. Whether “social awkwardness” in and of itself is considered “autistic” I am not sure, but socially awkward how she came across to me.

      The whole “that’s my bed” thing was actually the first thing which came to mind when I saw the theme, considering it’s a common trope you would expect when someone gains a roommate, but upon closer inspection of the scene Burnham really should have known better, considering Tilly’s belongings (yes, her name was quite literally on it) ere in the curio at the foot of the bed, whereas the curio for the adjacent bed was empty. For someone who was raised on Vulcan, that is quite an oversight.

      Maybe it just shows that, at that particular moment in time, Burnham really couldn’t have cared less but, by the end of the episode she appears to have developed at least the beginnings of a friendship with Tilly.

      • Fiery Little One

        Yeah, I didn’t entirely agree with the article I read, but I thought it was an interesting observation about her behavior.

      • Quintillion Tesla

        I took Burnham taking the wrong bed as just an effect of her being deeply troubled in her mind still over what has become of her, that she was not focused outward on which bed to take.
        So despite her intelligence, it was just an oversight, due to her being tunnel visioned in her own thoughts at that time.

    • pittrek

      The speculation is she might have Aspergers syndrome, which is a “light” version of autism.

      • Fiery Little One

        Yeah, that’s why I corrected myself with ‘or at least somewhere on that spectrum.’ I didn’t want to leave it at autistic since I know that means a lot more than most people might think.

    • TUP

      I wondered the same thing in a post on another forum. The “special needs” remark didnt strike me as referring to allergies.

      • Fiery Little One

        Yeah, that wouldn’t necessarily be something you’d say just for allergies.

  • drew

    THUMBS UP for this episode.

  • Jesus Christ

    DC Forever is a cocksucker.

  • Jesus Christ

    DC Forever fucks pigs.

    • Eric Watson

      Charming

  • Jesus Christ

    DC Forever is a Nazi.

  • Jesus Christ

    DC FOREVER ONCE HAD SEX WITH A GOAT AND MADE ASS CHEESE, THEN SHANE ATE IT. 26276

  • Richard Trevenen

    “Six months have passed since Burnham committed mutiny and essentially triggered the Federation-Klingon war.”
    Am I crazy or did I completely miss the part where Burnham triggers a war? Whatever her actions were (like accidentally killing the torchbearer) the Klingons were hell bent on starting a war. I get the feeling her ‘mutiny’ is blamed for starting the war when, if anything, it’s success may have ended it. It feels like bad writing but again, I could have missed something.

    • Trelfar

      You’re not the only one wondering about this. Burnham, despite her flaws, does seem to have been unfairly made a scapegoat for the war as a whole. I hope this is touched on later in the series and that it isn’t just the result of bad writing as you suggest.

    • Keith Melton

      I see it as this: Because her mutiny occurred at the start of the incident, the Captain was not able to properly handle the situation. Regardless of the Klingons final intentions, by breaking the chain of command Burnham is responsible in Starfleet’s eyes.

      • And as she killed a klingon first, with only her word it was “self defense” she is likeily seem as even more to blame

      • Richard Trevenen

        I thought of that. My feeling when I was watching it was don’t give Burnham the time of day. Get her into the brig asap so that the urgent situation is resolved quickly. I think that the writing or directorial pacing may have been a little bit sloppy as it doesn’t quite connect properly. That said it’s very early days and I’m overall quite happy with things so far.

    • TUP

      Its the one weakness of the series. if they wanted Burnham to be responsible for the war, make her responsible for the war. They chickened out.

  • CAPTAIN D-MAN

    I can’t wait for the next episode of “The Excellent Adventures of Misha
    in Wonderland, Long Tall Saru, Paul the Astromycologist Man, Silly Tilly
    and the mysterious Captain Tribble”.

    • GhostLoveScore

      haha great names 🙂

  • pittrek

    Interesting. Your opinions about Burnham and Tilly are exactly the opposite of my opinions about them 🙂

  • Quintillion Tesla

    I’ve read speculation elsewhere that the Stamets’ theory of the “fungus web” ( my term ) that connects the universe and allows for near instantaneous travel, may somehow be connected with the tech of the Iconians.
    Having watched the two eps ( TNG & DS9 ) which deal with the Iconians, I do wonder if it’s all connected.

    Even glimpses the Greco-Roman-esque pillars in “Contagion” and then again in “Context is for Kings” may make the speculation even stronger.

  • Phil Mcp

    Very interesting intro to the Discovery. Very different to other trek shows but that can be a good thing. Can’t wait for more. As long as it stays true to the ideals of Trek, or rather they characters arrive at them, I imagine I’ll be happy with how they get there.

  • hellion

    the superhero landing into the shuttle was the dumbest thing i’ve ever seen in star trek.

    • Ian Fleming

      Really? You were fine with crewmembers devolving into spiders and mermaids on TNG or evolving into salamander creatures, having offspring then magically returning to normal on Voyager? Enough with the hyperbole.

      • Quintillion Tesla

        Exactly. It was certainly ott to have her land like a superhero ( and not really fitting ), but certainly not the “dumbest thing” in Star Trek.

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      Stick with your Hello Kitty stuff or whatever that is.

  • Neill Stringer

    The show has promise and more or less with the exception of the communications holograms and 3D screens I think it is easy enough to fit in with the most part with the Pike era, if they adhere to the stuff I read about in Mack’s novel.

    The show seems good so far but I have to admit that something feels off with me while watching it, there were places I felt like I was watching BSG, rather than Star Trek. They weren’t kidding when they said this was a darker show, this is darker and more nihilistic than DS9 ever was. DS9 had a good balance of the lighter moments amongst the dark and had richer characters because of it.

    Regarding Discovery, I do agree with some comments that the majority of the crew seemed like assholes. Stammets was unlikeable because he was just too arrogant and confrontational, maybe he will get better as the show goes along.

    When Trek goes darker, the characters always manage to return to the ideals of the show, I hope this is the case here.

    I want to see more but something just feels off. Perhaps it is because it is such a darker show or is it because it’s the final reminder that Star Trek as I liked it won’t be back.

    The Orville captures the optimistic side that I want back in Trek. We need optimism.

    • Jamie Thomas

      “The Orville captures the optimistic side that I want back in Trek. We need optimism”

      I couldn’t agree more.
      Optimism in Trek is needed now more than ever and it’s a shame we aren’t getting it yet. Fingers crossed it returns.
      If and when it does, I may dip back into Discovery.

      • TUP

        The Orville is a spoof. If you want Star Trek to be like Orville, then you arent really a fan of Star Trek. They are nothing alike. Orville isnt Star Trek.

        • Keith Melton

          If it was all jokes and all “look how silly this is” then you would be correct that thinking Orville is a spoof. Orville is homage to original Trek with a MacFarlane layer of humor added.

          • TUP

            That’s literally what it is. its played for silliness.

          • Keith Melton

            If you think that is all it is playing for, then you are missing out. Orville may not be the deepest scifi in the world, but it is trying. Its not just silly.

          • TUP

            If its Star Trek then its Star Trek for simpletons. Its really shallow. dick jokes all over the place. Seth isnt funny. He’s an awful actor. There is very little there.

          • Keith Melton

            Its not your bag, thats fine. Humor is always the most subjective of subjects. I tend to ignore most of the humor myself. The characters are fun, the production value is high (for what it is) and the plots are straight out of TOS and early TNG.

        • Yeah, it was not even a good and funny spoof like Galaxy Quest.

        • Jamie Thomas

          TUP, you have no idea how much I love Trek so to say, because I enjoy the lighter optimistic tone of a different TV show that happens to be sci-fi means I’m not a true Star Trek fan is beyond ridiculous.

          No Orville isn’t Star Trek, but I like the levity of the series.
          If I want Star Trek I’ll watch Star Trek.

          • TUP

            You’re the one who held Orville up as an example of what you want in Trek. So being critical of your comparison is fair game.

            Orville isn’t Trek. If it was it would be the worst Trek ever produced.

          • Jamie Thomas

            I agreed with a comment made here that I wanted Discovery to have an optimistic tone and not focus on war, in no way does that mean I WANT any Star Trek series to be a carbon copy of The Orville.
            The Orville has its faults it isn’t perfect and it wont replace Star Trek but it has a more TNG light tone than Discovery’s current darker tone.
            You’ve jumped to a conclusion based on a single observation I agreed with regarding the tone of a TV show and took it to use as a way to question my level of fandom.

    • pittrek

      But they have taken the word “dark” too literally. I mean for half of the show I could barely see what’s going on, turn on the lights dammit! At least they minimized the Dutch angles for the third one.

    • Trelfar

      I’m hopeful that the introduction of such an abrasive set of characters is a set up for meaningful character development where the crew’s experience tempers them into better people, rather than just a lazy way to create drama through conflict. Right now the only likable people on the ship are Saru and Tilly.

      • Forest Elephant

        I’m struggling to like Saru and Tilly.

        For the first Trek series ever I feel like the characters are all unlikable.

        • TUP

          I disagree. I dont dislike anyone.

          And the idea that Michael is unlikeable isnt really true. I think some people are being manipulated into that sense (which is a successful thing on the part of the writers then). I find her sympathetic.

          As for the abrasive crew, Im getting the impression there is a reason Lorca chose certain people. Many touched by the war or tragedy or are otherwise angry. He must feel that suits their mission

          • Forest Elephant

            The idea that Michael is unlikable is true to me (and others from reading posts). I don’t find her sympathetic, although that is clearly what the writers are trying to evoke. Her mutiny would have been interesting if she had managed to stop or stall the Klingon war, or if conversely she had directly caused the war accidentally while trying to stop it. Instead it was clear that the Klingons were out to start a war no matter what anyone in the Federation did. Burnham’s actions were meaningless from a plot perspective.

            Lorca is charismatic, but also sinister. That is interesting potentially, but it does not make him likable. Tilly is supposed to be awkward, but lovable, but it comes across as needy and annoying. Staments so far is just a generic jerk. Saru at this stage is mostly a plot device to give the crew Spidey-sense and a straight man to banter with Burnham, but it is snippy argument rather than witty banter.

          • TUP

            I think the writers and director failed to create an adequete sense of desperation, either in Michael or the situation to explain her mutiny. I think they traded that for the “shock” of the sudden nerve pinch.

            And I suspect they simply didnt have to time.

            But I would very much have preferred a more desperate scenario. I would have had the Klingons attack and provide a real sense of inevitability to losing with Michael feeling she had the answer and desperate to do it. Im not sure what that would be if you eliminate the “firing first” scenario. But it needed more desperation and overwhelming breath taking action.

            But despite that, Michael is a perfectly likeable person. She has been shown to be nice, smart, funny, witty. We’ve seen her parents were killed, she was raised by an emotionally distant “father”. The moment she smiled warmly while saying “Amanda” to Tilly tells us a lot.

            Yeah, she’s depressed, jaded and filled with guilt. That was one episode. I still dont dislike her.

          • AmiRami

            Michael is your classic “Bruce Wayne” type, having lost her parents due to violence of some type and being pushed in a direction that would forever change her destiny. So I find her very similarly sympathetic to Batman personally.

          • Forest Elephant

            I want to like her. There is nothing wrong with Green’s performance. I’m just not connecting with the character. She seems to flip randomly from Vulcan stoicism to human desperation. The one place I did see a glimmer of hope was in her interaction with Tilly. “I’ll call you Mickey!” “No, you won’t.” That made me laugh.

            Hopefully there will be some character transformation over the season. I’m not hopeful what I’ve seen in the last three episodes, but we’ll see where it goes.

          • TUP

            What you’re perceiving as inconsitancy could be done to show the conflict within her.

            The flashback scene of her at the learning academy was very important. We know from seeing it that Michael was hesitant to answer because she was traumatized by the questions (and images).

            She lied to Sarek that if she could speak Vulcan she could answer quicker (which was transparently untrue since the questions were in English). And he correctly pointed out that the issue was not her tongue but her heart, as she sobbed.

            So we can infer from that that Sarek’s method to dealing with a traumatized child would be to teach her to suppress her emotions. And that was probably really helpful for her in ignoring her pain.

            We saw a human girl acting like a Vulcan when she first met Philippa. But 7 years later, she was much more “human”.

            Her flipping between emotions and logic could be indicative of an internal conflict. Its fascinating really.

  • Ian Fleming

    Pointless quibbles over sets and costumes aside, this feels like Star Trek to me.

    • Quintillion Tesla

      I’d add that many of the people who say “it doesn’t feel like Trek” are probably referring to the bland, pedestrian storytelling and visual style of Berman and Braga that carried from TNG through to Voyager, and then ENT.

      I think if we were following a next iteration of the USS ENTERPRISE, some critics may have had a better call to have the more familiar ( or overdone ) easy-going, middle of the road, “Trek feel” ( in their opinion at least ) that they yearn for.

      The fact that we do have a show that is NOT set on the Enterprise, means the programme makers should be allowed to mix things up a little – it what they had originally envisioned especially for VOY and DS9, and VOY particularly failed in feeling very different, or mysterious, or dangerous.

      • Ian Fleming

        Precisely. This show isn’t in the Berman-era. It’s in the era of ship captains reprimanding officers for outbursts of bigotry, officers mutinying and going off with genetically engineered supermen and substance-abusing women being trafficked to far-off mining colonies. We aren’t in the cosy pastel era yet. We’re on the (final) frontier.

      • ¡ zer0 !

        My fave complaint is that ” we’ve never seen a spore drive before in trek NOT CANON ”

        Well – 1. we never saw a transwarp drive from The Search For Spock before or since.

        2. We never saw the phase cloak from “The Pegasus” before or since.

        It has a precedent even within Star trek.

        I’m gonna guess that by the end of Discovery – the spore drive gets outlawed by Starfleet or they abandon it as it’s too dangerous and it gets covered up – hence why they revert to standard Warp Drive by Kirk’s time.

        • TUP

          Also, its not like they have switched to Spore Drive. it sounds like there are very few, maybe only one now that Glenn is destroyed, ships that are outfitted with this technology.

          I agree, since we know this doesnt exist, its either outlawed, classified (and not used) or is deemed a failure and abandoned (or is left open ended with further research needed).

          • ¡ zer0 !

            But all that is too logical for the haters. If it’s not exactly like TOS it fuckin blows and is a train wreck and is not real star trek like The Orville with it’s jokes about genitalia and lazy racial stereotypes.

    • pittrek

      Really? To me the first 2 episodes felt like a cross between Battlestar Galactica (the Ron Moore one, not the old good one), and Star Wars, while the third one felt like an Alien sequel.

      • Ian Fleming

        I’m talking about this episode.

        • pittrek

          I know. I felt like I was watching an Alien sequel, not a ST episode

          • Ian Fleming

            You need to watch more Star Trek then.

          • AmiRami

            Ya, if any series reminds me of SW its DS9, not DSC. There are strong parallels between the Profits and the Force in DS9

          • Keith Melton

            prophets: worm hole aliens
            profits: things ferengi want most of

          • AmiRami

            oops. I always make that mistake lol

          • pittrek

            Actually I’m more of a TOS guy

      • Trelfar

        Did you just blaspheme the new BSG? For shame, sir. FOR SHAME.

        • pittrek

          Not sure if I’d use the word “blaspheme”, but I hate the “new” series. I tried to watch it twice, once when it was new and once last year, I absolutely don’t understand why people like it so much. But my main problem with that show is basically the same as I have with Discovery – there wasn’t a character I would like. (Cadet Tilly is the first and only character I like on Discovery after seeing the first 3 episodes). Plus it was too “religious” and too boring for me.

          The “old” Galactica was silly and pretty cheesy, but at least I liked the characters, and cared about them. It was no masterpiece, but I liked it for what it was.

          • SFSeries&Movies

            I felt the same about the NEW BSG regarding the characters, no likable characters.

            As a whole I did like BSG the first 2 seasons and the occupation beginning season 3 (because for me it had a DS9 season 6 occupation feel to it). After that it indeed became too “religious”.

          • Keith Melton

            “After that it indeed became too “religious”.”

            Try watching the original sometime. You do know that Glen Larson was a mormon himself and injected much of the LDS mythology into the show right?

          • DC Forever

            Don’t talk bad about Mormons, that is a bigotted thing to do.

          • scotchyscotchscotch

            reimagined BSG was a slow burn. I binge watched later and loved it, long after it came out, you clearly get that more immediate payoff from the character building watching like that. I can totally understand having to wait week to week and getting bored, it was actually pretty uneven and went into some weird places (usually Kara-centric arcs).

      • AmiRami

        Really? I didn’t get a Star Wars feel at all. Despite being set in space, SW was always more fantasy than Sci-Fi. And DSC seems all about the science.

        • Perplexum

          That remains to be seen. I need definitely more info about that mushroom drive and its instant teleportation spore network.

          • AmiRami

            well we’re only 3 eps in so it def remains to be seen. I dunno if you watch After Trek on all access but that spore drive is somewhat based on a real scientific theory.

          • Its clearly based off trek lore if nothing else.

          • AmiRami

            yup yup. So far everything fits pretty well.

          • It really does, I can not wait to see how they screw up using tech they do not understand.

          • AmiRami

            U know those spores are going blow SH** up!! It’ll bring a whole new meaning to the phrase “mushroom cloud” LOL

          • There is a reason in 200’000 years no one has duplicated it.

          • AmiRami

            exactly. I still maintain the spores will be this show’s omega molecule.

          • Ya know, they could be linked. This cpuld be the creation of that protocol

          • AmiRami

            hmmm didn’t think of that but that would be totally cool.

          • Who knows where they will go with it.

          • AmiRami

            Nicholas Meyer :-P. MAN would I LOVE to be a fly on his wall!!!!

          • I do not think he is involed

    • I’m enjoying it so far, but I’m also finding it a bit uncomfortable to have to see Captain Lorca as a suspicious character who may be up to no good. While Trek has certainly had captains in the past who were evil or insane (think Captain Tracey in “The Omega Glory” or Commodore Decker in “The Doomsday Machine”), those weren’t OUR captains.

      Of course, maybe Lorca will turn out to be a good guy after all. Maybe. At the moment, it seems as if he might be setting Burnham up to be the scapegoat if everything goes horribly wrong with his mysterious project.

      I’m afraid I like my Star Trek captains to be morally exemplary and downright heroic … then again, I grew up on James Kirk. 🙂

      • Keith Melton

        There is a reason Kirk was the mold that everyone tried to become after. You don’t see any other captain being revered as much.

        • Actually, a lot of people seem to adore Captain Picard at least as much as they do Kirk.

          But yeah, Kirk was a very good person — and Spock was practically a saint 🙂 — and to me, their having the moral high ground was a lot of what made Trek what it is.

          • Keith Melton

            I am talking historically. Lets just consider Kirk’s attitude a cultural shift (and probably came about from his younger experiences in this war) and gives us plenty of room to play with story wise that Lorca isn’t the best moral captain of the fleet.

          • TUP

            If anything, what we’re seeing helps contribute to the feeling in TOS of Kirk’s mission of exploration being more dangerous. Far away, no fleet to back him up, prior knowledge of these “contacts” gone awry.

            Very dangerous indeed. TNG never really felt dangerous. TOS did.

          • Keith Melton

            Exactly! This show (and it looks like the writers are doing there best to make it happen) is molding the world of TOS to be what we know. 10 years may not seem like that much of a time period for such drastic changes but historically we have seen it happen.

          • prometheus59650

            This.

            For instance, Picard could communicate with Starfleet in near real time. Kirk? It was all up to him and then he had to justify it later.

          • AmiRami

            TNG was much more about policing the galaxy instead of exploring it like TOS.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Picard should have been a diplomat. He was too much lecture and process, and not enough real leadership. He was in the wrong field.

          • DC Forever

            You are so wrong about Picard. He was the greatest Captain Starfleet ever has known.

        • DC Forever

          You probably think that the best Captain in Star Trek was that handicapped one from the Cage right?

      • JP

        Either he’s not really a bad guy and we’ll find out why behind all the subterfuge, or he is and we’ll get to see Michael mutiny again but this time it’ll be rewarded and she’ll be our captain.

        • Two interesting possibilities, for sure. And I’m sure the writers can think of others, as well. 🙂

          • JP

            Here’s to hoping!

      • Ian Fleming

        Like the man says in the episode :”Context is for kings”. We’ll just have to watch the rest of the season to find out what Lorca’s motives truly are. It is possible that he will turn out to be a villain or it’s equally possible that we’ve been given a bunch of red herrings and it merely looks like he’s up to no good. We shall see.

  • Rob Heyman, you say that Burnham “essentially triggered the Federation-Klingon war,” but she DIDN’T. T’Kuvma made it very clear that he WANTED to start a war, that he thought a war with the Federation was essential for Klingon unity and cultural purity, and that nothing would stop him from starting a war.

    Burnham has been BLAMED for the war by Starfleet, because they needed a scapegoat, and she did, after all, commit mutiny. But the war would have started no matter what she’d done.

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      Except in the case where they actually had fired first, before the Klingon fleet arrived. The “Vulcan Hello” might have worked.

      • If I remember correctly, even before the Klingon fleet arrived, they’d realized that the Shenzhou was outgunned by the Klingon ship, so even if they HAD fired first, it probably wouldn’t have made any difference. Burnham wanted to fire first so that the Klingons would respect them, and that made sense, given what she knew at the time. But what she didn’t know was that T’Kuvma WANTED to start a war and thought it was essential for Klingon unity that a war be started. So even that “Vulcan hello” wouldn’t have averted the war unless they could have destroyed T’Kuvma’s ship, which they probably couldn’t have.

        In context, the phrase “Vulcan hello” is specifically a strategy FOR KLINGONS, since that fits with Klingon culture. I sure hope the phrase “Vulcan hello” won’t become generalized to shooting first with anybody, since that would be a terrible thing to do to a planet full of pacifists! 🙂

        • TUP

          I agree. T’Kuvma would have used any excuse as a pretense for war.

          In fact, he didnt know if/when the fleet would arrive. But when it did, he used it as an example to the other houses that Star Fleet was here as an aggressor when in reality that was not true.

          Had they fired first, THAT would have been the pretense for war. It could be argued, T’Kuvma wanted them to fire first in fact. But really, it clearly didnt matter to him.

        • Perplexum

          The one person on the ship that had the right idea was Saru. Bless him, the only character so far I give a damn besides for the dotty Captain and his horror cabinet.

          • T’Kuvma wanted to start a war. If Georgiou had done as Saru suggested and tried to run away, I think the Klingon ship probably would have fired on the Shenzhou, to try to start that war. And since the Shenzhou was outgunned by the Klingon ship, that first shot from the Klingons might have prevented them from continuing to run away … which would have put them right back where they are now.

            It takes two sides to make peace but only one to start a war.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            While I would say probably did outgun the Shenzhou some, T’Kuvma’s ship was mainly a heavy ornamental sarcophagus ship that was assembled from older tech parts, so I think you make a mistake if you are just comparing ship mass and assuming from that that it massively outguns a much more efficiently designed Starfleet ship.

          • I’m not comparing ship mass; I’m responding to a line of dialogue that stated explicitly that the Shenzhou was outgunned. It was Starfleet officers who said it, not me. 🙂

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            But we don’t know if was just “outgunned”, or “massively outgunned.” I am betting the former.

          • DC Forever

            Yea, we will never know if the hello might have worked or not?

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          Yea, but you forget that it look some time for T’Kuvma to convince the other Klingon families to join him. At first, they thought he was full of shit. So, if earlier, the Shenzhou had done the Vulcan Hello attack, even if it was unsuccessful, it could have damaged T’Kuvma’s ship, and quite possibly reduced his leverage in making his case to the other families. That’s why the Vulcans do “the hello” — it’s a preemptive psychological attack more than anything else that has proved successful time and time again against the Klingons.

          I bet it would have worked!

  • TedW

    I loved the episode, but something I’m struggling with (after rewatching the first two episodes). Help me understand how her attempted “mutiny” caused the war. The Klingons were going to attack regardless. She was planning on firing first to prevent the war. It seems to me that it would have happened anyways.

    • Keith Melton

      It didn’t. But Starfleet felt the need to place blame somewhere so she was made to be the scapegoat.

  • TUP

    “Six months have passed since Burnham committed mutiny and essentially triggered the Federation-Klingon war.”

    Maybe Im nitpicking, but she did not trigger the war. Nothing she did had any impact on war with the Klingons. Unless the Klingons were particularly offended by her nerve pinch to Philippa…lol

    • Keith Melton

      You are only seeing this from the sides of a viewer who knows all bits of the story. Burnham’s court martial and people blaming her for the war are taken from Starfleet’s perspective ONLY.

      • TUP

        No, Im commenting on the reviewers perspective that she triggered the war. Which she did not.

        • Keith Melton

          Fair enough.
          In story though, even if we know the truth…Starfleet had placed blame on the war beginning at her feet. Rumor and hearsay throughout the fleet has taken care of the rest.

          • Richard Trevenen

            She doesn’t try to defend her position in the shuttle at the beginning but maybe she holds herself responsible anyway or has just given up trying after 6 months.

          • Keith Melton

            Exactly. The system has already failed and broken her.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You guys nailed it — yep!

    • You’re right. T’Kuvma made it very clear that he WANTED a war, and the only thing that might have stopped it is exactly what Burnham suggested that they do — beam onto his ship and abduct him. As it turned out, they couldn’t pull that off … but if they’d been able to, it probably would have averted the war.

  • AmiRami

    Liked the ep. Still can’t get over seeing a StarGate actress on Star Trek though lol.

    • Keith Melton

      Actors jump from job to job. That shouldn’t be a surprise. Look at how many B5 actors were on DS9 and TNG.
      But what specific actress are you talking about being on Stargate? Unless you are referring to Rekha Sharm. She wasn’t on SG, but on Battlestar Galactica.

      • AmiRami

        I’m not saying that I have an issue with it, I’m just used to seeing it go in the opp direction (Robert Picardo and Conner Trineer for example)

        Anywho I was thnking that the security officer was Lexa Doig but apparently I was mistaken

        • Keith Melton

          Then you must have flipped out when Andromeda showed up on Stargate then.

          • AmiRami

            Again, not saying I had an issue with it. Just that it was weird. Weird != bad necessarily. And I never watched Andromeda.

          • Keith Melton

            Why is it weird ? That makes no sense.

          • Yeah, it does. Sometimes you tie a character very strongly with the actor that plays them. When seeing them in other roles it just feels off.

          • AmiRami

            Fun personal fact. The whole reason I am such a huge Trek fan today is because I loved TJ Hooker growing up 🙂

          • This is amusing. For me that actor is Christopher Heyerdahl. Because of Hell on Wheels, I do not trust any character he plays LOL

          • AmiRami

            LOL

          • AmiRami

            When I first see it, it takes me out of the story. Thats one reason, for example, that the role of Superman has traditionally always gone to a relative unknown.

          • DC Forever

            Batman completely contradicts that argument.

          • AmiRami

            True. But Batman is a character that wears a mask. Superman and Clark Kent clearly show their face at all times.

          • DC Forever

            Yep.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            They nearly made a Nick Cage Superman movie years back. Whoops!

          • AmiRami

            I know, right?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            It wasn’t cancelled because of the casting.

          • AmiRami

            Granted. But it doesn’t negate the fact that others who have made Superman movies have wanted unknowns for the very reasons I am specifying. Bryan Singer is on the record saying he wanted an unknown who looked just like Christopher Reeve. Christopher Reeve himself was a virtual unknown before Superman, The MOvie.

            Superman movies have avery specific formula… Superman himself is cast with an unknown and the supporting cast, namely Lex Luthor, is usually a very famous actor. From Gene Hackman to Kevin Spacey to Jesse Eisenberg.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Fair point.

          • AmiRami

            Thank you!!!

      • AmiRami

        OMG I just realized why I thought that! Her name is actually Landry LOL

        http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ellen_Landry

    • There was a long list of Trek actors on stargate as well. And lest not forget Farscape actors on Stargate

      • Keith Melton

        Exactly. Having an issue with seeing one actor from one scifi show on another scifi show is ridiculous.

      • AmiRami

        yep. I referred to Robert Picardo and Conner Trineer below 🙂

    • DC Forever

      Harrison Ford called to say hi

      • AmiRami

        Hi Harrison!

  • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

    So the abrasive lead is a skewed version of Tom Paris, even down to looking for a table in the mess hall?

    Show is trying way too hard to be edgy and they need some likable characters.

    • DC Forever

      “Show is trying way too hard to be edgy and they need some likable characters.”

      Sound like your situation as a poster on this site. 😉

      • Matthew Burns

        Lets at least wait until the shows breaks in November, to be passing judgement on the edginess of the show…

    • TUP

      I find all the characters likeable. Michael is not unlikeable just because she’s portrayed as not liked by other crew members.

      I find her sympathetic.

    • The Science Fiction Oracle
      • DC Forever

        Lol – he is “phoning it in”

        Freaking hilarious!

  • DC Forever

    Great review, Trekcore. The only major item you missed was the outstanding and complex portrayal of Lorca by Isaacs — great casting!

    • AmiRami

      I think I heard that he plays his character as if he is attracted to his crew in an homage to Kirk.

      • Matthew Burns

        Well Lorca is giving a Kirk vibe. He even sort of looks like Kirk, similar posture, similar swagger. I am eager to see more of him.

        • AmiRami

          Yep. And I am all in for a morally ambiguous Captain. Haven’t had that since Sisko from “In the Pale Moonlight”

          • TUP

            One way to play it too, is that just because Lorca might do morally ambiguous things or seemingly be ethically unprincipled, we dont know whats in his heart, at least not yet.

            He’s a Captain. Obviously a very respected one. War has been going on for six months. So he achieved his rank and position during peace time.

            How do we know his greatest sacrifice isnt doing these things and being internally tormented and having to keep that to himself? There is great sacrifice in that too.

            Or he’s cool with it. Who knows. lol

          • AmiRami

            I still say he is Garth of Izar lol

          • Keith Melton

            Garth’s history is a bit muddled depending on what source outside of his TOS appearance you go with but there is no reason to think that Lorca is Garth.

          • AmiRami

            I’m not saying I have a reason, just that I am predicting it will happen.

          • Keith Melton

            And what exactly is this prediction based off of? Just because he is a slightly off kilter Captain willing to do what needs to be done to win the war?
            I think you are grasping at straws where none exist.

          • AmiRami

            Its a hunch. I don’t need reasons to justify a hunch.

          • Keith Melton

            Well your hunch is a crock of shit with no basis in reality.

          • AmiRami

            Listen, if you want to be a complete Dick do it on someone else’s time. I’m done talking to you now.

          • Keith Melton

            You want to put forth a valid theory? Do it with some proof or at least point to something that can back up your conjecture. Anything short of that and you are nothing but a worthless troll.

          • mr joyce

            at the end of the day, a theory is not proof of anything, its just a theory, and speculating about different possible explanations for ‘things’ in our particular fandom is a given. i think its a little unfair you suggesting that hes behaving in a ‘trolling’ way, you just dont like the style of his explanation. it looked like you both had quite a good discussion

          • Keith Melton

            Only after prodding did he add any valid reasoning for his theory. I wasn’t looking for hard and fast proof. I wanted something, ANYTHING to back up the theory (other than Lorca and Garth share a “G” starting name.)
            Without even the tiniest of thought as to why any theory is possible, the poster is trolling. Add some claim to back up the theory (no matter how ridiculous it may be) and you are not trolling.

          • TUP

            It was speculated by many people.

          • Keith Melton

            and again…speculated off of what proof? Show me even the tiniest of examples where this might be the case.

          • TUP

            Its Star Trek. We all speculate. Especially in connecting seemingly unrelated things to the larger canon.

            But I think the description of Lorca being so similar to that of Garth plus their names beginning with “G”, I mean dude, thats all you need for many of us lol

            Its fun to speculate. Im not sure you seem personally offended.

            But whether its true or not or stupid or not, it WAS speculated quite widely.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Kirk in TOS never refers him as “Captain Lorca” or “Gabriel”.

            I mean, that is pretty damn conclusive for me. Khan and Kirk both begin with a K — so what?

          • TUP

            I’m sorry you missed the point. Lol

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I get the point, but I just never bought into that theory that has been going around for awhile. Just not seeing it? 🙂

          • AmiRami

            Checkov was not in “Space Seed”. It didn’t change Khan from recognizing him in Star Trek II. Things change in canon and can have in universe explanations.

            Fun Fact, Star Trek First Contact changed how first contact happened. Originally Roddenberry said that Cochran’s Warp flight ended with him showing up on Vulcan. He share the Warp tech with them (even though they already had it) and the Vulcans were so impressed they wanted to get to know humanity.

            But of course ST First Contact and ENT changed everything.

            If it doesn’t happen on screen, it isn’t canon, despite what ppl believe.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Another fun fact. When Koenig read the script on WOK, he noticed the error about him having never met Khan in TOS season 1 episode, but he decided to keep it to himself given the expanded role he had in WOK.

          • AmiRami

            lol thats totally true. But my point is Chekov not being on scree in Space Seed doesn’t negate the character having been there. If canon doesn’t explicitly deny something whats wrong with including new facts?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Technically I agree with you, but you using that to suggest that anything could happen off-screen bends the spirit of canon rules to the point of being laughable — you are using the rules incorrectly to claim “anything can be possible” so as to back up your conjecture on Garth here.

          • AmiRami

            Why? What in canon dictates that Lorca can’t be Garth?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            What In canon dictates that Lora can’t be Kirk’s uncle?

            What in canon dictates that Lorca can’t be a future Federation president?

            What in canon dictates the Lorca can’t be Archer’s grandkid?

            See how silly this is? Can I technically disprove these? Of course I can’t. Can I say these simply can’t pass an objective person’s bullshit filter? Of course I can say that.

          • AmiRami

            But see, there’s the thing. Why couldn’t Lorca be Kirks Uncle? Why would DIS introducing that fact change anything for TOS?

            I mean we are talking about a series that introduces the idea that Spock has always had an adopted sister that was fully human. Just like Star Trek V introduced his half brother Sybok. Why is no one complaining about those facts?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Technically, yes. But you using this kind of “reverse Ocaam’s razor” argument to prove any possible conjecture you want here is just not credible. It’s the ultimate “get our of jail free card” that you are trying to use to prove your point.

            You could use this tactic to prove that an infinite number of very silly things could happen in Star Trek…so what? Sorry, but I am not impressed.

          • AmiRami

            I’m not trying to impress anyone. If you disagree with my theory thats totally your prerogative.

            But here is what I am not getting… How is the idea of Lorca actually being Garth any different than DIS introducing the idea of a fully human adopted sister for Spock? Heck, one that Sarek fully embraces joining Starfleet and yet hating Spock for doing the same?

            And how is it any different than “John Harrison” actually being Khan in STID?

            How is what I am doing here any different than what Star Trek Producers have already done?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Simple. Sybok and Michael are presented as is, directly.

            For Michael, there as no “Martha of Andoria” from TOS, where fans are now conjecturing, “oh, Michael is a nickame for Martha” or anything silly like that.

            Similarly, there was no “Bachman of Delta Vega” Vulcan character introduced in TOS, that we are now supposed to believe was really called Sybok. Makes no sense.

          • AmiRami

            That doesn’t negate John Harrison = Khan. And again, Lorca = Garth doesn’t actually change anything. This isn’t a BvS Martha situation. If you see the Memory Alpha page, Garth only has one name… Garth. Nothing about his origin dicated in TOS means he can’t be Lorca.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Like I said, is it remotely possible that Lorca could be Garth according to your argument? Yes. Does it pass my bullshit filter? Absolutely not.

          • AmiRami

            I get what you are saying. What I am asking is why does Michael being Spock’s adopted sister and Sarek approving her in Starfleet passing your bullshit filter? What is the difference?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            That is a completely different discussion. I was responding to your theory that Captain Gabriel Lorca in the new DSC series is actually the character Garth of Izar from TOS. You are saying they are one and the same.

            Sybok and Michael were introduced as first time characters, with no issue about them being characters we had already seen in Trek under different names, which is what you are conjecturing here.

          • AmiRami

            But that still does not negate John Harrison = Khan. Its happened in Trek before. I fail to see why it can’t happen again.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Actually that one really bothers me. They essentially tried to re-write canon and made Khan a white British guy, and then the stuff with Spock screaming Khan instead of Kirk in original prime canon, etc. It was cringe-worthy.

            The fact of how they botched that so badly makes me personally consider that movie to be in violation of canon, to tell you the truth.

          • AmiRami

            Don’t get me wrong… The “white guy” aspect SERIOUSLY pissed me off. Esp because I am Indian myself, like Khan. But the reversal of names didn’t bother me.

            If they had done something like, umm, “Sameer Patel is actually Khan” I would have been ok with it.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I will grant you that you did successfully come up with one example there in Trek with the name change thing. But, my goodness, if that is an example of what happens when then try that, then god help us fans of DSC if your unlikely theory were to pan out.

          • AmiRami

            Ok well we can agree to disagree. I would love it if it happened. If you don’t thats totally up to you. Thank you for having a nice convo with me 🙂

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Sounds good, Ami. Good “talking” with you!!!

          • AmiRami

            I look forward to future talks. I like it here! I love Trek and LOVE talking about it with ppl like u!!!

          • The Science Fiction Oracle
          • AmiRami

            best pic EVER!!! No words can describe how much I love that ship!

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            YEP 🙂

          • mr joyce

            awwww, bromance 🙂

          • TUP

            I actually liked that speculation. Would have worked for me.

          • AmiRami

            I’m rereading his memory alpha page now. I don’t think he has been referred to ever as anything other than “Garth”. SO who knows he could be Garth Lorca?

            Also there is this:

            “His career dissolved in a dramatic descent into madness and attempted genocide, resulting in his commitment to the Elba II asylum for the criminally insane.”

            I could TOTALLY see a drive based on Spores accidentally causing genocide and then drive Loca insane.

            http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Garth_of_Izar

          • TUP

            I thought it was possible for the same reason. There is nothing that would say it wasnt possible. Plus, I believe Lorca was described in almost the exact same way Garth was. “Brillian military tatician” or something like that.

            I actually thought “Gabe Lorca” was a placeholder to keep the secret that he was “Garth Lorca”.

            I dont think they are going to do that now. I think if they were, they’d have simply revealed it right away.

            But if they want to do it, there is no reason they cant (unless they intend to kill Lorca). They could even plant little clues throughout the season that really have no impact on the show but are “Easter eggs” for the fans to collect.

            Such as seeing a quick glimpse of his personnel file and have it read G. Gabriel Lorca (or Gabriel G. Lorca) or someone remark that he uses his middle name because he hates his first name or something.

            I dont know. But yeah it could certainly fit. I liked it because I like the idea of taking a one off character or ship or scenario and expanding on it and adding to the mythos.

            I know some dont. But I do. So there. lol

          • AmiRami

            Also, it was kinda telling how quickly and efficiently Paramount killed off the Axanar fan movie when DIS was put into production. And Axanar was a pivitol moment in the Klingon/Federation war, which Lorca is clearly hell bent on winning on his own.

            I’ll be happy with the character whether he is Garth or not. But I still have that nagging suspicion he is!!!

          • Keith Melton

            See… a little bit of proof to back up your claim. Speculate all you like (we are fans, that is what we do) but have some facts to back it up.
            My main beef with this theory is that Kirk claimed that he saw Garth speak at the academy when he was a cadet (and that his military success at Axanar was required reading). If the timelines aren’t getting jacked….Kirk (born March 22, 2233) would have already been out of the academy and serving in the fleet at this point. So by that logic, Axanar had already occurred.

          • AmiRami

            Ok, you’ve seemed to calm down so I will answer you now. The timeline did get jacked. Prior to the incident with Michael’s ship, it was stated that no one has seen Klingons for 100 years. In other words, ENT’s time frame.

            And I still maintain that I am allowed to put forth a hunch with little or no facts to back it up. That’s NOT the definition of trolling. I am being respectful of others and discussing the topic at hand.

          • Keith Melton

            Little facts? Sure. Put them forth and speculate away.
            No reason what so ever? Then you are just pulling something out of thin air and I will call you out on it.

            As to the timeline, I don’t think its been jacked yet. So far in actual Trek canon do we know who the advesarys at Axanar were. Books, roleplaying games and even that pyramid scheme fan film that killed all fan films have made it out to be Klingons, but we have no actual in universe proof of that.

          • AmiRami

            1) you can call someone out while still being respectful. You weren’t. I try VERY HARD to be respectful even if I 100% disagree with someone .

            2) Unless we are talking about a Romulan style war where the Federation and Klingons were at war but never saw each other, Axanar could not have happened while Kirk was a cadet.

            3) Also, consider this. Star Trek II, Savvik was already a commissioned officer but was at the Academy training for Command (Kobi Ashi Maru). Kirk could have cheated at the Kobiashi maru after having returned to the Academy after serving on the Republic (or was it the farragaut?) as a leutenant. Thats something that happens in the real world us military.

          • Keith Melton

            1. I asked for proof of some kind. You offered none in response and claimed you needed none. I called bullshit on that.
            2. That very may well be. But again, until we see it on screen or it is mentioned in an actual canon considered source, the time and specifics of Axanar are all unknown
            3a. It is Kobayashi Maru lets be correct please.
            3b. Savik reapplying for command (the only way you take the Kobyashi Maru test) is possible but due to the fact she wore the red collar/shoulder band during all of STII and was upgraded to white for her field commission in STIII I would put forth that she was an advanced cadet, but still just a cadet. A cadet CAN graduate with e LTjg rank, many ensign ranks are assigned during last year of academy especially with field training assignments.

          • AmiRami

            “You offered none in response and claimed you needed none. I called bullshit on that.”

            Again, I don’t need proof to put forth speculation. That’s not Trolling. The Earth being round was once a theory with NO proof.

            “But again, until we see it on screen or it is mentioned in an actual canon considered source, the time and specifics of Axanar are all unknown”

            Ok, then I am confused as to how you are reconciling the “haven’t seen Klingons in 100 years” statement in the pilot?

            “It is Kobayashi Maru lets be correct please. ”

            I’ll try but spelling is NOT my strong point. And you knew what I meant.

            “Savik reapplying for command (the only way you take the Kobyashi Maru test) is possible but due to the fact she wore the red collar/shoulder band during all of STII and was upgraded to white for her field commission in STIII I would put forth that she was an advanced cadet, but still just a cadet. ”

            She was a Lieutenant while taking the test. You don’t have rank before you graduate.

            In the real world military an elistman or officer can go to OCS (Officer Candadate School) training or something like Seal Team training and have their rank temporarily rescinded because their instructors are of a lower rank. I don’t see why that couldn’t be the case with Kirk.

          • Keith Melton

            I merely asked for the tiniest of reasons why you felt your speculation had any merit. Is that so hard to understand?
            I am reconciling the “100 years” with the fact that we have NO PROOF who the adversaries at Axanar were. The battle of Axanar could have been a few years ago against some unknown (to us) bad guy that was a tactical victory but resulted in no further issues.

            Spelling is important. We have spell checkers. We have sources on the internet to look things up. Use the technology available to you.

            And yes, you can get rank before you graduate. There are multiple situations where that can occur. However, I was in agreement with you that Kirk could have gone back for command training (although everything we know about Kirk shows that he went to command training right away. Youngest Captain in Starfleet for a reason)

          • AmiRami

            “I merely asked for the tiniest of reasons why you felt your speculation had any merit. Is that so hard to understand?”

            Ok, lets drop this aspect because we will not agree.

            “I am reconciling the “100 years” with the fact that we have NO PROOF who the adversaries at Axanar were. ”

            Fair enough. But, we don’t know how long Lorca has been a Captain in StarFleet or how old he is. Lets say it wasnt against the Klingons. Why could Kirk not have read about him at the academy? This is a universe where Kirk is the youngest Captain in starfleet history (even in the Prime universe) and where a himan can live well beyond 100 years.

            “Spelling is important. We have spell checkers. We have sources on the internet to look things up. Use the technology available to you.”

            Then I have to point out that you (as well as I) spelled Saavik wrong.

            “And yes, you can get rank before you graduate. There are multiple situations where that can occur.”

            A lieutenant rank? Really? I mean, how often does that occur?

            “However, I was in agreement with you that Kirk could have gone back for command training (although everything we know about Kirk shows that he went to command training right away. Youngest Captain in Starfleet for a reason)”

            I always took that reason to be his performance on the Republic. Its VERY hard to justify a cadet as being a Captain candidate before he serves even one day on a starship.

          • Keith Melton

            Sorry. I will not be dropping this subject. If I even encounter any kind of speculation without the tiniest of reasoning to back it up I will call it out.

            So do you not consider an ensign a rank? Plenty of ensigns are assigned rank during their final year of the academy to go along with their field training.

            Those interested in command go to command school as part of the academy. Kirk’s younger actions is what led him to be noticed and promoted quickly yes.

            Lets not also forget that in the TOS episode Kirk claims Garth’s victory was instrumental in making it possible for him and Spock to work together as brothers. So I would like to think that Garth’s actions are from before Spock joined the fleet.

          • AmiRami

            “So do you not consider an ensign a rank? Plenty of ensigns are assigned rank during their final year of the academy to go along with their field training.”

            I never said that. I said Saavik was a Lieutenant. So the Ensign rank is irrelevant.

            “Those interested in command go to command school as part of the academy. Kirk’s younger actions is what led him to be noticed and promoted quickly yes.”

            Rather than continue to argue this point I will direct you to memory Alpha:

            “When he was a midshipman, Kirk began a friendship with instructor Lieutenant Benjamin Finney that continued into their service together aboard the USS Republic. (TOS: “Court Martial”)

            During command training, Kirk confronted the Kobayashi Maru scenario, a simulation used to evaluate a student’s reactions to a “no-win” battle and rescue situation.”

            http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/James_T._Kirk

            NOTE that this article lists Kirk’s exploits in cronological order and Kirk serving as a midshipman comes before his command school training.

          • Keith Melton

            You did claim that no cadet gets rank before they graduate. I countered with the ensign rank.

            Midshipman is a rank given to a cadet. So if Kirk was still an midshipman at that time and then went to command school, he was still not fully graduated.

          • AmiRami

            the point being that Kirk could have returned to the academy AFTER serving on the Republic and have Lorca’s exploits be required reading for him.

          • Keith Melton

            Fair enough. Still disagree with your initial theory so only time will tell.

          • AmiRami

            ok time will tell.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Kirk in TOS never refers him as “Captain Lorca” or “Gabriel”.

            Therefore, I find it incredibly silly to consider that this “Lorca = Garth of Izar” thing is anymore more than a well-meaning Trek fan brain-fart.

          • AmiRami

            You’re entitled to your opinion of course. But Kirk never negated “Lorca” either. Garth is never referenced as anything other than “Garth”. Its almost like saying A character can’t be someone named “Robert” because he was once referenced on a show as “Bob”.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            He also never negated calling him the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny.

            😉

          • AmiRami

            HAHA!! I’d be ok with Lorca being the tooth fairy! We are talking about a franchise that had such fake mythological characters that they had Apollo!!!

            But if Lorca was someone like Picard then I would have an issue!

          • Matthew Burns

            Take Dr. Mengele. He likely would never have got away with his unspeakable crimes in peacetime, but in wartime Nazi Germany, all restraint was out of the window, and humanity’s worst instincts allowed to flourish.

          • Matthew Burns

            But Sisko was a ‘good guy’ for the audience watching every episode.

            I am yet to work out, whether Lorca is also a ‘good guy’ or whether he will be a ‘bad guy’ in the show. He seem to be a guy who has good intentions, but bad practices. Will be interesting.

  • GIBBS v2

    I forgot how painful it is to wait a full week between episodes!

    I take for granted how many weeks, and years of episodes it took to build the huge Trek library I can now access in seconds on Netflix.

    • AmiRami

      We live in awesome times. Technologically anyways.

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        Politically, not so much

        • AmiRami

          Unfortunately this is true….

        • Eric Watson

          Politically, it is a very interesting time to live in. A good time for Trek’s allegorical story telling.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Provided we make it through the “live in” part of that over the next 3 years and 4 months.

          • AmiRami

            Still sucky tho

    • Eric Watson

      I wanted to wait two weeks so I could watch 2 new ones in a row. I didn’t have the willpower.

    • Kirksdeadjim

      I like that it takes a week to get a new episode.it builds anticipation.I will never understand how people binge watch tv shows these days.Its pathetic and unhealthy.

  • Eric Watson

    When I watch DS9 on All Access, the picture and audio quality are not as good as Netflix. Anyone else notice?

    It’s really nice to NOT know something about Star Trek. I have a lot of trek memorized. I’ve seen every episode of every show many times. It feels so good to have the wonder and thrill of not knowing what happens next. I love that trek is back. I hope for many many more years to come.

    • I only have the all access option. It has worked and looked fine for me, but others may have had issues.

      • AmiRami

        I’m playing the show with a Visio sound bar and I have had annoying distortions 🙁

        • Sorry to hear that

          • AmiRami

            Thanks!

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          Thanks for validating my investment in Sony and Panasonic AV equipment. 😉

          • AmiRami

            haha ur very welcome!

    • AmiRami

      Yes. There are the parts of the show where I can barely hear the actors so I have to turn the volume up. Then when a battle or musoc happens suddenly my speakers are rattling my windows. VERY ANNOYING!!!!

  • trüllo

    Whattaf*ck! SPORE DRIVE. I CAN’T BELIEVE IT.

    “It creates monsters, don’t use it.”

    By the f*cking way: They visited Romulus. Did they note the pointed ears? 😉

    • mr joyce

      lol…

  • Oswald Skarsol

    I am enjoying the show so far, and am withholding any major judgement for this story line and the overall “Trek-ness” until the season actually completes. The best thing I can say is that the show is covering new ground, and has a few threads I am interested in seeing play out.

  • DC Forever

    Do you guys find Burnham to be attractive?