As you saw in our review from a few weeks ago, the new Star Trek 50th Anniversary Blu-ray collection is a hearty box set – a beautiful gold and black package containing not just the full run of Original Series cast adventures from television and film, but some wonderful collectibles as well.

The most substantial new part of the collection is the exclusive bonus disc contained inside, The Journey to the Silver Screen, a long series of new interviews with behind-the-scenes talent covering the span of time from the classic show’s cancellation through the final film in 1991.

We last spoke to producer Roger Lay, Jr. – one of the lead forces behind the amazing bonus features on the Next Generation and Enterprise Blu-ray collections – back in 2013 as Enterprise was being released in high definition, in an illuminating five-part interview.

We caught up again with Roger earlier this month at the Star Trek: Mission New York convention to talk about his newest contribution to the Star Trek media library.

trek50-box-slide

TREKCORE: So this big box – which by the way, is really a beautiful package – is the first time that the Original Series television episodes and movies have all been released in one set, right?

ROGER LAY: Yeah, I think so. And this is the fiftieth anniversary, so it’s the perfect time to offer fans the massive binge-watching package, you know? To put everything related to the Original Series – and the Animated Series, for the first time – in one Blu-ray collection.

TREKCORE: It’s really great that the Animated Series has finally gotten a high-definition release on disc. It’s always been kind of overlooked – it was the last of the DVD releases…

LAY: …and as I said in our panel, I feel that it’s part of the canon. You know, Gene was there supervising everything, Dorothy Fontana and David Gerrold and Sam Peeples wrote for that show. “Yesteryear,” especially, is canon in my book!

TREKCORE: Well, they pulled from TAS for not just the Original Series remastering updates, but the Enterprise writers included some of that stuff too.

LAY: Absolutely! You see a sehlat in “The Forge” – what more connective tissue do you need than that?

shikahr
The city of ShiKahr (“Yesteryear”) is featured in the remastering of “Amok Time.”

TREKCORE: Well, speaking of the Animated Series – there aren’t any new features on this set. Everything from the DVDs is ported over, including the text commentaries which have sometimes been left behind, but why wasn’t there any new material created for this TAS release?

LAY: Well, the team felt that the stuff that was created for the Animated Series DVDs was great, and that it covered the series well already – and we really wanted to focus on the films our new set of interviews on the bonus disc.

With The Roddenberry Vault coming in December, we’re telling the story of the original show – so with this, we wanted to focus on everything that happened once the television show was cancelled. The bonus disc – called Star Trek: The Journey to the Silver Screen – picks up the moment the Original Series ended.

You hear from Bjo and John Trimble, Dorothy Fontana, David Gerrold, John Black… with all the people who were there when the show was in production, we also get to explore how everything came to an end. They guide you through what happened next, with all the fan efforts to resurrect Star Trek.

Devra Langsam, who was part of the committee who organized the first Star Trek convention – she’s in that piece, talking about putting that first convention together and how it inspired the studio to possibly do more Star Trek.

langsam
Trek convention organizer Devra Langsam discusses the first event in New York.

Then we go into the whole back-and-forth about if the show is coming back to television, or becoming a movie, and all the concepts that never made it to screen. We explore all of that in The New Frontier: Resurrecting Star Trek, before we even go into the making of The Motion Picture.

Then there’s an entire piece just on The Wrath of Khan – since it’s such a significant movie – and then a whole piece on the Harve Bennett era, which explores a lot of Harve’s ideas that didn’t make it to the films, like Prison Planet, the early Star Trek III script that were very different from the final movie, and then Star Trek IV with the whole Eddie Murphy thing.

There’s a great archival interview I found with Harve Bennett where he guides you through the storyline for his Academy Years movie, along with a new interview with David Loughery who also takes you through that story. So between Harve and David, plus Ralph Winter – who first came up with the thought of keeping the film series going with a new cast in case they didn’t get the original actors back for the next movie, as it was so difficult to get them for Star Trek V.

TREKCORE: It’s definitely not the same “making of” style of interviews that were on the original movie discs.

LAY: Well, I felt that no one had really covered the film era from this perspective – the idea that for every Star Trek film that was made, there were two or three that didn’t make it. And again, with everything I do, I like to provide context and a chronological narrative for everything.

harve
Producer Harve Bennett appears by way of archival interview footage.

So even though I’m exploring the movies that didn’t happen, we’re also showing you what DID happen. We shot a ton of new interviews with people like Ralph Winter, who was really responsible for all those movies along with Harve; he started as a studio executive on The Wrath of Khan and then left Paramount to work on the movies directly as a producer.

Kirk Thatcher, too, who was Leonard Nimoy’s assistant, who did VFX stuff at ILM for Star Trek III, and then by Star Trek IV he had become an associate producer. So I interviewed everyone that was still around.

And by the way, the research to find all the script pages, and outlines, and the other documents we include took a long time to do, but we wanted to make sure that it was definitive as it could be.

TREKCORE: It’s almost two-and-a-half hours – certainly longer than we expected!

LAY: It wasn’t easy. Everything you see in there – from the filming of the interviews, to the editing process, finding all the images, animating things like the Ralph McQuarry concept art – was done in four months, and it was a lot of work, and I hope fans will get to see it because there’s so much great information in there.

titans
Ralph McQuarrie’s artwork from “Planet of the Titans” appears in a slightly-animated form.

TREKCORE: And you’re kind of a completionist when it comes to this stuff, right? Because many people have bought this stuff separately already…

LAY: Well, if you go to a Broadway show, you know, you buy the souvenir program – and this is kind of the ‘souvenir set’ for the fiftieth anniversary of Star Trek, because everything is in there, the packaging is beautiful, and you get those art cards, the cool pin, and the Journey to the Silver Screen bonus disc.

If you’re a completionist like me – and I know that not everyone is as an insane fan as I am – you want to have a souvenir of everything important to you, and this box is that for Trek, celebrating every aspect of the original cast.

TREKCORE: Well, we have one last question for you – the one we’re always asked – what’s the status of Deep Space Nine and Voyager?

LAY: Everyone wants to do it – there’s not a person involved in these projects that doesn’t want to jump in on Deep Space Nine. We talk about it all the time, but there has to be a market supporting the expense. The reality is that it’s a business, and it’s getting more and more expensive to do these things.

What I always say is that the best way to show support is to buy the Blu-rays we’ve put out. I know it’s expensive sometimes, but then I go, “Well, why would someone want us to put out DS9 on Blu-ray if they’re not even buying the other things we’ve produced?” It’s a kind of a Catch-22.

It’s not like people have forgotten about it; Deep Space Nine comes up all the time. Is there something fans can do? Yes. If you show support for all of the content – and remember, CBS hasn’t just been putting out the episodes barebones on Blu-ray, they’ve spent a great deal of time and money to give fans the definitive experience of Next Generation and Enterprise with tons of newly-produced content for each collection.

We love DS9, but it’s expensive, and it takes time, and these things have to generate a return – and I’m sure CBS would love to get to a point where the entire Star Trek episodic library is available in glorious HD, but it’s all dictated by the marketplace. So if fans keep showing their support by picking up the amazing content already available, that’s the first step.

DS9 is a dream project; it’s my favorite of the modern-era Trek shows. I know Mike and Denise Okuda really like that show, and they have great memories of the time they spent working on it – so it would be fantastic for them, too, to get to revisit it and get together with old friends for those special features.

But as our friend Mr. Spock said, “There are always possibilities.”

TREKCORE: So keep hope alive?

LAY: Absolutely, there’s no reason not to – but buy some Blu-rays, too!

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Order the Star Trek 50th Anniversary Collection today!

  • David Dennis

    Never any mention of deleted scenes for the movies. Not one deleted scene from 2, 3, 4 and 6.

    • Zarm

      If only. Not to mention getting the other Director’s Editions out there…

  • Martin

    Why don’t you start a funding so fans can donate for ds9 and voyager on blu ray

    • James

      ^^THIS!

    • pittrek

      They don’t know yet it’s the 21st century already. If they started a kickstarter campaign they would have the needed money within a month

      • Dusty Ayres

        That doesn’t work in the context of a company like CBS; also, it’s a business, not a charity.

    • Zarm

      I would suspect there may be some legal issues involved there?

      • M33

        Which is funny considering ratings-wise I remember DS9 being the black sheep of the bunch.
        Maybe they could release both, one seasom each at a time.

        • Coupon: The Movie

          That’s what I was thinking. The best way to do it would be to do season 1 of DS9 then season 1 of Voyager then season 2 of DS9 and so forth until they’re done.

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          Your memory ain’t so great then. DS9 had better ratings than Voyager, and its ratings were way, way above Enterprise’s.

          • M33

            I must have read some faulty viewing numbers back then. Thanks for the correction.

        • Zarm

          I would love that. And even though I can’t really afford it right now… buy them both. 🙂

      • xagt351

        I like all the ST series’s, Enterprise came good in Series 3 and shone in Series 4 except the last ep. But I really liked DS9 because it was a bit different to the others, and the almost series long story ark with the Dominion was a big change from other ST stuff.
        Id buy both Voyager and DS-9 tomorrow if it was remastered on Blu Ray. I have all TOS, TNG and Enterprise on Blu Ray.
        I wish they would do Stargate SG-1 on Blu Ray also, but sadly money will also be the killer as SG-1 was mostly done with video quality CGI.

        • Zarm

          I hadn’t thought of that. But that would be awesome. That’s what my family is going to rewatch once we finish up with Voyager. 🙂

    • Dusty Ayres

      That doesn’t work in the context of a company like CBS; also, it’s a business, not a charity.

    • Edwin van Unen

      Kickstarter etc. are not for big businesses, so indeed will cause some problems. But of course there are other ways.
      I did wrote CBS a couple months ago why they won’t do such sort of thing in a way of pre-orders, but never got a reply.

  • Snap

    For those who would see the DS9 on Blu-ray response as just CBS holding it “hostage” so people will buy the existing releases, it is actually logical from a business standpoint. CBS is, at its core, a business and must make money from a product and while the fans may bombard them begging for DS9 to be remastered and released in HD, the only numbers they have which can provide an indication of the market for such a release is the data gathered from the previous Trek Blu-ray releases.

    Unfortunately, newer generations of consumers are working against us as they are showing a preference towards non-physical streaming services and not particularly caring about having the highest quality product available. While others will prefer DVDs because those releases are cheaper than Blu-ray. On that note, I really do not understand why budget DVD releases of each TNG season were released while the Blu-rays were being produced. Why expect people to buy the stunning new Blu-rays when the DVDs are available for half the price?

    Sometimes, business decisions can be most illogical.

    • archer923

      That doesn’t make sense. Digital sales, re-broadcast rights, and digital rentals have to also count, in the whole plan. Just because we don’t get those numbers. CBS etc. does. The problem has to stem from the fact that ALL revenue streams aren’t covering TNG’s remastering cost. At the speed the company wants/needs.

      • Snap

        Friends and Seinfeld are not Star Trek and I don’t believe they require extensive CGI material to be reconstructed if they cannot get their hands on all of the assets.

        The thing is, when asked what it would take to get DS9 on Blu-ray, they actually state what we can do: buy the product they are currently putting out. But then there are those who don’t want to spend any money and expect to essentially be GIVEN the remasters for next to nothing hemming and hawing and making excuses.

        The sales for TNG on Blu-ray were apparently good enough for them to complete the project and have the entire series released, otherwise they wouldn’t have sunk money in to continue the project. Obviously, the people who buy the season (or complete series) sets aren’t going to flock to themed releases featuring content they already own, but for people who felt the seasons were too high a cost, there are the complete sets.

        What it comes down to is none of us know what exactly the criteria is for remastering and releasing the shows, but we have been told what we, as consumers, can do to help bring the dream to reality. Nobody is obligated to by releases of series they have no interest in, but if their data on Blu-ray sales makes such a release impractical, then it’s not likely to happen. We also do not know if rebroadcast sales are even related to the state of home video sales, but if CBS says “here’s what you can do” it makes no sense for people to thumb their noses at them and then whine when they don’t get what they want.

        • archer923

          Friends and Seinfeld still were done. The rebroadcasting was lucrative enough, for the companies to do them. Seinfeld twice actually. First, was the DVD release. They were HD remasters. Then they were remastered again, when they unmatted and re-framed them to 16:9, on networks.

          That was the only point I was making. If all these avenues haven’t gotten the other shows green lit. Sales have to be overall poor, across everything. Because TNG-R has so many avenues. If people are constantly saying that streaming should be the main source, is the best option etc. Why wouldn’t companies not count digital rentals and sales, apart of the whole picture? Why would everything still hang in the balance of physical copies only?

  • M33

    Own all the blu-rays already! Not sure how else I can help to get DS9 and Voyager out on HD!

    Seriously… maybe crowd fund a part of it to help offset the cost?
    If MST3k can raise 6 million with a niche fan base, imagine what millions of Star Trek fans could raise!

    • Dusty Ayres

      That’s not how a corporation like CBS works. Can’t you people take business courses?

      • M33

        Please explain why this cannot work. I am a very successful business person, but perhaps you know something I don’t.

  • Eric Cheung

    Here are my Blu Rays, plus TAS on DVD. Actually, since then, I’ve bought all the TNG two-part episode movie blu rays. I can’t justify buying this set, unless the documentary was somehow sold separately, but I’d be willing to kick in for a crowd-funded effort or something.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/06ca4e9864a0d697a314099256a0e1e34de3cbf15682092c2a1a7edec0c808bd.jpg

    • M33

      Nice pattern array you made!
      I would have just taken a photo of my shelf, but obviously the muse struck you!

      (Didn’t know you could post photos on comments. Fellow trekker here recognizes the Federation: The First 150 Years book under the UK TNG set – nice choice!)

      I’m one of those suckers that bought the 50th set just for the new documentaries, even though I own everything else separately.
      (Yeah, I know…)

      • Eric Cheung

        I’m glad you bought it, if it really does help convince them to do DS9 on blu ray, but I feel like I’ve probably done my part at this point. The only way I could justify buying more of these things is if I buy them as gifts.

        • Eric Cheung

          And I know I’m a broken record, but I don’t think we’ve seen any sales records for the Full Journey box sets, nor the newer complete series release from this year.

          This is the only information I’m aware of (the below is quoted from a post, linked after the chart):

          Here are the first week North American sales figures that are publicly available (mostly via the-numbers.com):

          Next Level: 22,820 units / $342,066
          Season 1: 36,110 units / $2,712,563
          Season 2: N/A
          Season 3: 16,060 units / $963,439
          The Best of Both Worlds: 16,254 units / $245,594*
          Season 4: 12,405 units / $755,850
          Redemption: 9,428 units / $127,183
          Season 5: 7,235 units / $434,028*
          Unification: N/A
          Season 6: 9,183 units / $568,705
          Chain of Command: N/A
          Season 7: N/A
          All Good Things: N/A
          ———————————————-
          TOTAL: $6,149,428

          Also:

          Season 5: 13,152 units / $802,104 (after 18 weeks)
          The Best of Both Worlds: $547,342 (after unknown number of weeks)

          TOTAL: $6,819,252

          Source:
          http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=10293194&postcount=155

      • James Daniel Newton

        I’ve seriously considered buying the box set just for the documentaries too…

  • pittrek

    This actually pisses me off to be honest.
    No, not Roger, or Mike or Denise or anybody from the team, but the approach of CBS. Hey, buy the same stuff you bought 15 times already and MAYBE we will then give you the stuff you actually want. But probably not.

    I bought TOS on VHS, then on DVD, then the remastered DVDs, then I bought the season box sets on Blu-ray, then I bought the “full voyage” blu-ray set, how many times do they expect me to buy the same stuff? The movies – I have them on VHS, the 2DVD sets, the 2009 Blu-ray sets, plus the 2016 Director’s cut Blu-ray of Khan, again, how many times do I have to buy the same stuff AGAIN? Even TNG, I have them all on VHS, DVD, and I bought them on Blu-ray TWICE – I have the “standard” versions and the german steelbooks (because they look so much better). The same goes with Enterprise, I have the DVDs, the seasonal Blu-ray box sets, the “full voyage” set…

    I was really, REALLY looking forward to this 50th anniversary box set. Then I’ve seen the packaging … Am I really the only person who absolutely HATES the new artwork buy that guy whose name sounds Mexican but I can’t remember it right now? It’s so ugly. But I still wanted this set. I was hoping that because it’s a 50th anniversary set, maybe they fixed at least some of the worst mistakes from the 2009 set (like the incorrect opening credits on the early episodes, different or missing sound effects etc.), or maybe they gave money to Roger to do new documentaries (those which are taken from the DVDs are boring as hell), or maybe even they will add something interesting, like blooper reels, deleted scenes etc. … Nope, they just repackaged the old discs.
    I wanted the TAS HD transfers, but after seeing comparison pics and reading that they reused the same boring documentaries from the DVDs…
    So now, I hate the cover art, I don’t care about the “collectibles” (because I think they’re incredibly ugly), I don’t care about TAS, I have all the movie discs, so the only thing I’m interested in is the documentary disc. So how should I “explain to my wallet” that I should spend 200 Euros so that I can buy a mix of things I already have and things I don’t want? Just to get one disc I care about and maybe, MAYBE some day in the future DS9 and VOY?

    • Sykes

      Same here. I’ve bought TOS on VHS, DVD, & Blu-ray, TNG on VHS, DVD & Blu-ray, DS9 on VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD, Voyager on VHS and DVD, ENT on DVD and Blu-ray, the movies on VHS, VHS again in widescreen, DVD, DVD again, Blu-ray…at some point I think I’ve supported them enough. I get it, the bean-counters need to see numbers. But jeez, I could do without people talking as though Trek fans don’t fork over their money enough. I can’t buy this box set for a single disc, no matter how much I try to convince myself.

    • M33

      Yeah, artwork by that guy isn’t all that to me either. Not understanding the hype.
      Then again, I’ve never been a hype person.
      Never understood the zombie hype, the HBO series’s hype, the Obama hype, the vampire hype, etc.

    • Mike C.

      I’m forced to agree with Admiral Pittrek. This is a terrible idea.

  • James

    I don’t think Paramount or CBS cares about the 50th anniversary. And this box set wont sell in great quantities at all and is already heavily discounted – you can buy it for £119.99 on Amazon already. I own all the moves, I have them on VHS (twice), DVD (at least twice) and blu-ray. I even have TWOK twice on blu-ray as it was remastered.

    The tat that comes with this box set is just that. Tat. Compare this to the lovely Franklin model that comes with Beyond, and you can see that it can be done. Decent incentive to splash the cash there.

    Why oh why does Paramount keep flogging the knackered old prints of these films? It’s the 25th anniversary of TUC in a while. I fervently wish that they’d re-scan the movie and release it as a special edition. That’s the only way that I’ll buy these films again!

    The 50th has been squandered. Paramount and CBS should look at Dr Who, now there was a celebration.

    • Michael

      Paramount only cares about milking the fans who keep buying the same thing over and over. They will do the same with 5k, then 8k, etc

  • Salvador Nogueira

    They are looking at DS9 and VOY the wrong way. It is the 21st century, one shouldn’t focus on the home video market. The right way to do this is to offer a sweet deal for a streaming service — maybe ammend their deal with Netflix — to pay for the remastering, and then try to make an extra buck on home video! I imagine many of the hardcore fans that trepidate to embark on CBS All-Access for just DSC would do so to get a season per year of remastered DS9 and VOY. Even Fuller has said CBS is all the time discussing how to make CBS AA more interesting for trekkers, besides DSC. This is IT! Give us one season of DSC in May, and one season of DS9 remastered in December. Then bring it to BD mid-2018, and we go from there…

  • CoolGeek

    No offense to anyone here but i dont want DS9 on blu ray as i did not like the show at all.It just wasnt Star Trek to me.

    I understand it does have a following but not every Trek fan liked that show.

    • Sykes

      There is no Star Trek that every Trek fan liked.

      • Robert Anthony

        I’ve liked it all. With episode exceptions in each series of course.

        • Sykes

          I’m glad. But that doesn’t change what I said. 🙂

          • Robert Anthony

            ‘Just wanted to be counted outside the generalization. ; ) I do wish that CoolGeek and others would give DS9 another try. It’s a very rich gem in the trek universe. Cheers.

          • Sykes

            Ah, I gotcha. I think you misunderstood me.

            There are heaps of Trek fans who like all Trek, but there is no Trek all fans like. 🙂

  • Barak Aslani

    So ‘buy everything’ and maybe you’ll get DS9 on Bluray. Stop producing stupid boxsets of tat. You realise all the films together, but no Directors Cut for The Motion Picture. Why would any of us buy this set when we already have these films? Because you printed ’50’ on the box? Star Trek fans who own bluray machines would have raced out and bought all the trek films on bluray long before this boxset was ever concieved. TAS on Bluray is great… But saying we should ‘buy everything’ in the hope one day DS9 will be on bluray is hard for me to swallow. How can you compare these hollow manipulate boxsets exploiting fans, to an entire series which needs to be remastered and enjoyed in HD? You can’t compare the two. There is a market for the latter, so stop publishing/producing rubbish know one really wants and actually sell stuff that’s not been available prior, and we will buy it.

    • William Peck

      I could be mistaken, but I don’t think CBS/Paramount own the right to the new material for the directors cut of TMP anymore. I’m thinking they would have to pay Foundation Imaging for the material, I’m guessing they don’t want to do that.

      I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said though, this is getting old. I realize no one is being forced to buy anything, but to hold DS9 over our heads is shameful. I myself am a content junkie, I only want the new bonus disc, so I guess i’m outta luck unless I buy the whole thing all over again. Thanks CBS, you know how to treat a fan!

  • Michael

    Voyager was mostly crap, but if they don’t remaster DS9 it would be a crime. They have said that STD is “already profitable”
    Use that profit to remaster DS9

  • Christopher Greer

    The best bet for us to get DS9 in HD at this point would be the show being remastered….and being made exclusive to CBS All Access (or at least a timed exclusive). Right now fans who aren’t planning to just pirate Discovery are going to subscribe to AA for maybe two months, long enough to watch the first season, then drop it (People already do this for Netflix original series). Having DS9 and VOY also being released on AA, and being exclusive to that service might get people to actually KEEP said service.

  • dep1701

    Part of the problem with getting the other series remastered is the fact that it’s all lumped under the heading “Star Trek”. As has been said before, not every Star Trek fan likes or watches every series. They may be set in the same universe, but they all have different casts, characters and premises. When the executives at CBS look at the cost of remastering series like DS9 and Voyager, they don’t see 2 unique series with their own fanbases, they see parts of a franchise. If other parts of that franchise fail to perform, then it affects their perception of what will sell.

  • prettyconfusd

    Well admittedly this interview has swayed me to purchase the TNG, ENT, and new 50th collection Bluray boxsets. I’ve been deliberating for a while – and having them turn up on Netflix hasn’t helped because it’s just so much more convenient than using discs.

    But if it gets us one step closer to DS9 on Bluray (and to a lesser extent for me, Voyager) then it’s a small price to pay!

    Plus, the bonus content always sounds great and that’s the stuff I’d love to watch.

    It’s just not ideal that TNG and Enterprise don’t have any decent looking releases – I really dislike the artwork and packaging on both. It’s a real shame they didn’t do awesome 50th anniversary editions to at least echo the design of this new set.

  • StuUK

    I appreciate that the DS9-R and VOY-R projects are a big ask… It’s encouraging however to hear that there are those on the inside who continue to keep picking at the edges of this.
    And the crowd funding idea sounds like a reasonable one to me; it would at least leave an impression of how committed fans of these specific chapters of Star Trek actually are.

    • Dusty Ayres

      The crowdfunding idea is bogus and also isn’t realistic, either.

      • StuUK

        Do explain…

        • Dusty Ayres

          Do read the article again, and while you’re at it, also take business courses.

          • StuUK

            You’re out of line dude!

            As you stand there in judgement over what is bogus and realistic should we all assume that you yourself have indeed completed courses in business studies? – I would really like to know!
            And if your education has ensured that you are very well versed on the strategies employed by business then why don’t you justify a point and educate the rest of us instead of championing lines that present you as a bit of a dick?

            I for one couldn’t ever see me being enthusiastic enough about business studies to attend courses in it but I can read an article or two.
            It is a fact that crowdfunding has been used to fund the products of business so again, explain why the idea is bogus and unrealistic. I fail to read the answer in the article.

          • archer923

            I’ll take a crack at the being unrealistic part. Technically, we all do crowdfunding. It’s just done as a store purchase, or purchase download. They make the product, we buy it. TNG-R hasn’t sold well. Because people aren’t buying it enough.

            Then people donating to the restoration. Would be the same thing. Or do worse. Because no one would know about it. It also be a larger sum. Because we’d have to kick off the restoration team. Consumers don’t deal with the early loss, from that stage. You’d have to fund the team. Then buy the BD. Has any crowed funding ever reached $10 million?

          • StuUK

            I appreciate your point regarding the disappointing returns for TNG-R and how those results can (and almost certainly do) serve as the primary indicator for CBS as to whether or not to green-light the DS9-R/VOY-R projects; the same point has been made on news pages of TrekCore on and off over recent years whenever this topic resurfaces.

            From our side of the fence the lack of up to date information with respect to how well TNG-R ultimately performed makes it really hard to appreciate the measure of how viable or ludicrous the risks to CBS are in committing to the same again. Just how much did the restoration of TNG cost? How many units have ultimately been shifted (worldwide) and how much money has actually been made off of them? (I do see you Eric Cheung! – It would be interesting to see an expanded version of the same).

            But I’m inclined to think however that confining the future treatment of DS9 by the performance of TNG-R alone would be a little unfair to both that show and its fans; yes, there exists a lot of overlap since they’re set in the same universe but they are different TV shows. For all we know DS9 might enjoy a greater percentage of the fanbase than TNG ever did; admittedly I’d be surprised at that but without an appropriate study, who’s to say?
            What’s even trickier to measure is the answer to this question: Are fans of DS9 more passionate about their show than those of TNG?

            I know that a little knowledge can be dangerous or misleading and I have practically no frames of reference with respect to the viability of crowdfunding restoration projects like DS9-R.
            It’s apparent that if targeted correctly however these campaigns are capable of raising a lot of money in a very short space of time (ref. more than $10.2-Million in 37 days for the Pebble E-Paper Watch (a smart watch); the Oculus Rift campaign achieved more than $2.4-Million in 30 days).
            I am aware that crowdfunding has been successfully applied to fan made Star Trek productions and of course there’s Adam Nimoy’s documentary “For the Love of Spock”. So whether it’s business ventures or artistic endeavours the crowdfunding model doesn’t appear to discriminate.

            The issue you mention appears to be one of cashflow but I’d be willing to wager that CBS has plenty of that kicking around. What CBS lack is the confidence, the commitment and the motivation and that’s perhaps where a successful crowdfunding campaign steps in; not necessarily to fund the project outright but as a means of lessening CBS’s financial burden and maximise their confidence in the project as fans of DS9 demonstrate via the campaign how much they want the DS9-R project to become a reality; the unfortunate flipside of that however would be if there simply is not the hunger from the DS9 fan community and the campaign ultimately falls flat on it ass. – The final nail in the coffin I mentioned.

            A second bucket of water so to speak would be the recognition that the fans that contribute to a successful campaign would obviously commit to the purchase of the end product. For them, having a full set of DS9-R boxsets would probably represent the most expensive set of BluRays they’d ever own.

          • archer923

            I remember an article on trekcore said it cost $9 million per season. I don’t remember when. I could be remembering wrong. It could of been for something else. I’d personally think crowdfunding would fail. Or at best, it okay season 1. But then fail for subsequent seasons.

            Not only are fans picky on what show they watch. But what seasons they liked too. Although, I always wondered if it was more beneficial to TNG. If they did start with a more popular season. Or that season 2’s mess up caused the sales loss. I didn’t buy s2 till it was on a $38 sale.

          • StuUK

            I too recall hearing about $9-Million in costs but I’m not so certain that was for every season. The Wertzone did a pretty good write up (although I have no clue as to their credibility as I’ve never heard of them before now) on the future of Trek-Remastered projects and dropped a few numbers including the $9-Million price tag for remastering of TNG Season 1; that season carried additional costs as the workflow processes were being designed and team players were being assembled. Over the course of the subsequent seasons the workflow processes were streamlined and the costs reduced taking the total cost of the TNG-R project to… “North of $20-Million” (Wow!!).

            Looking through Eric Cheung’s figures regarding how many units of TNG-R were shifted, they really are all over the place: 36000+ units for Season 1… 7000+ units for Season 5… 9000+ units for Season 6… It seems odd to me that there exists a slice of the fanbase that likes TNG enough to purchase the premium editions of the show, but only so far as to cherry pick certain seasons; what motivates that kind of fan exactly? – Were they put off by the prices and therefore couldn’t justify buying them all? Did they only have a passing curiosity as to what TNG looked like in HD? Were they largely unimpressed by the remastered editions overall?
            Does it strike anyone as odd that if only 7000 fans bought all 7 boxsets and the other 29000 were merely cherry picking, why did 13000 or so opt to purchase the weaker first season over the often applauded 3rd season?
            I’m afraid I didn’t contribute a penny to the returns figures of TNG-R as I was banking on the Full Journey boxset being released; for 3 years I was starving and absolutely gagging to see it. I’m curious as to how many fans pulled the same stunt as I.

            I would class myself as amongst the pretty dedicated (or sucker!). I’ve owned the entire catalogue of episodes and movies on VHS, DVD and have fully embraced the BluRay releases… And will probably pay for the holodeck issues of the episodes when they get released 🙂
            Whilst I am content (well, pretty enthusiastic actually!) to part with the cash to advance my collections to the more advanced mediums that they are released on I’m certainly not one for purchasing reissues and re-releases; I just can’t see the point and that’s why I won’t be buying the new 50th anniversary TOS/TAS/Movies boxset reviewed on this news page. If I didn’t already own The Full Journey then I would but… No! I must confess, I am very interested in that Roddenberry Vault set though; I’ll almost certainly get that!

          • archer923

            Well for me. I’m picky, if a certain amount of bonus features are omitted or jerked around. If I hate the movie. I can easily ignore it. I never bought Into Darkness. I have no problem that it’s missing. I didn’t buy s2 intill this year. I still hate it. But the bonus features swayed me to pay $38.

            Basically, people bought S1 because it was the first time the show was in HD. Ohhh factor. Then between the audio fuck up and people getting bored of its remaster. Since its still something they saw it a billion times. That was it. That’s the case for any show. Take Smallvile. There is no BD release of the shows first 4 seasons. Because they expect them to sell bad.

          • Dusty Ayres

            And I don’t see myself having any sympathy for crybabies like you who’ve been getting everything from the rights holders of Star Trek in its anniversary year.

          • StuUK

            Well… consider myself told!

            You’re not really here to make friends are you Dusty… You’re certainly not here to educate, enlighten or offer any kind of clarity. Dude, why are you here? – Is it purely about the ball-flicking??

            PS. I’m not crying and I’m not chasing sympathy!

          • Dusty Ayres

            It’s about interjecting a note of REALITY into this whole affair, and making it clear to you and others here that you can’t do this crowdfund and get this; either deal with what I’ve said or stop commenting. Paramount/CBS are not going to remaster DS9 and Voyager on Blu-Ray or 4K unless they’re both shown that there’s sales for this DVD/Blu-Ray set, and that’s that. It cost a lot to make DVD/Blu-Ray, and the expenditure for a classic show like these being in high-def formats has to be justified in the sales-simple demand and supply. No (big) demand, NO supply, period; these businesses are not charities for sci-fi fans.

          • StuUK

            This thread is about 3 weeks old and this is the first time you’ve actually err… contributed more than some snidey remark. Mind you, after a little browse through the post histories on your Disqus account it’s apparent that you do have a habit of getting it out and waving it in peoples faces… Zero to arsey in no time at all!

            Now to your point… It’s not like anyone was ignoring what you were saying; I for one was merely asking that you throw a few lines together to justify where you were coming from and look… You did it!
            You offer the principles of supply and demand; your point wasn’t actually all that revelatory to be fair although I’d submit that at present it all probably does come down to that at the end of the day.
            But crowdfunding has been offered up as a solution to providing the funds for both the ventures of business and creative pursuits; it’s gone far beyond the interest of charities. So when people throw questions at Google to explore just what has been made possible through crowdfunding, is it any surprise that fans take interest in the possibility that DS9-R could benefit from this model in some way? It certainly doesn’t hurt to at least debate the point in a place like this does it??

            Now before you lose it, let me say again, I suspect that you’re right, supply vs. demand IS a compelling argument. But know that I don’t think you’re as right as you think you are.

            Oh and you never answered my question: Are you a graduate of business studies? Do tell so we can all appreciate just how credible you really are.

        • Dusty Ayres

          Do your research, please.

  • Pedro Ferreira

    I think I’ve mentioned this elsewhere but I’m pretty certain DS9 will be remastered in HD at some point, we just need to wait for the costs to come down. It’s a necessity for studios to remaster filmed shows for blu-ray and online digital streaming as people watching online would never want to spend money buying episodes to watch in SD when they have HD TVs. It’ll happen as I said it’s a waiting game. Also for those who either doubt me or think I’m talking rubbish I have to point you to Universal who are currently remastering their TV shows like KnightRider and The A-Team for HD. Hope that helps keep people optimistic.

    • archer923

      Both shows were completed on film. That’s why they’re done. Even Chip N’ Dale Rescue Rangers is in HD, on iTunes. Because there was final film masters available for the series. If the show requires reconstructing. That show will get ignored. And if it has lots of effects, really ignored.

      • Pedro Ferreira

        It’s a necessity to remaster stuff because for casual viewers who don’t about all this stuff they’re going to complain that the shows look crap on their HD TV and want a refund. In this case the studios will have to remaster everything they can in HD.

        I’m aware that both shows were completed on him but it’s at least something. Once the prices on remastering more difficult stuff comes down then they can work on bigger shows. For Universal one of the biggest hurdles will be a show like Sliders. Battlestar Galactica was fairly easy as that was models. Thanks for the heads up on Chip N’ Dale. By the way do you think Universal will have trouble with Quantum Leap as that had some effects?

        • archer923

          I was just talking about how casuals still buy things in SD. Regardless of using an HDTV.

          Scanning and auto ID’ing the correct takes, is “easy” now. That’s why CBS-D did the film scanning work and assembly, on seasons 2 and 4. Just not the effects. Visual Effects remastering/reassembly still needs an actual post team. That’s the crutch.

          Universal is never going to deal with Sliders. Germany already got a BD set of it. And it’s all upscale. At most. Only the pilot is available on film. If Quantum has no film master. Especially later seasons. It could be a 50/50 chance. They wouldn’t bother with it. And just upscale. There is no good money in it, to remaster properly. Just like Babylon 5, is up shits creak.

          Shows like Transformers G1. Will never be remastered. Because the film material has tons of animation errors. That were only fixed, on tape. I talked to one of Shout Factory’s disc producers. They located film stock of a few G1 episodes. Released them on DVD. And fans wrote in. Tons of stuff were missing. Or had wrong colors etc. Then they found out most of the raw film animation takes weren’t finalized. They had to revert back to the tape masters.

          X-Files compared to Star Trek, is leagues less work. And still, majority of the big alien CGI effect shots, in episodes. Weren’t remastered. None of Firefly’s effects were remastered.

          The only way these shows will get any remasters. Is if somehow people started caring about them, in massive numbers. A government funded remaster program gets created. Or some rich entrepreneur, just calls the companies and gives the money to remaster whatever they liked.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Yeah I imagine Sliders would be as costly as Star Trek in bringing to blu-ray and that show isn’t no where near as famous. Been doing a bid of digging and have found that Rescue Rangers on iTunes may not be actual HD. I wonder if the 80s TMNT film masters exist?

            Could you clarify what you said about Quantum Leap? That show really needs a remaster. It has tons of film dirt and grain and some shots are incredibly blurry.

          • archer923

            Rescue Rangers is HD. I saw a preview. And I have the DVD sets. It’s not upscaled.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            “Rescue Rangers is HD. I saw a preview. And I have the DVD sets. It’s not upscaled.” Ok, it’s just I found this, look at post dated Thu 02 June: http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32368

            “Quantum leap has a 50/50 chance of being finalized on tape or film. It was at the point between companies switching to tape. If all the seasons have a film source. They’ll probably do it.” If there’s any show that needs a remaster it’s Quantum Leap, even from when the show was made it looks awful. There’s dirt and grain everywhere in the picture, and some shots look very blurry, not sure why. Compare this to Eerie Indiana from the same time period and that doesn’t look as bad. I don’t think the leap in effects would be too difficult to add back in but the episodes do need a good amount of grain removal to stop the episodes looking like they’re from the 70s.

            “Look at Knight Rider. Millcreek has to release it on BD. Universal didn’t care to. And they had a HD master, since the DVD’s were done. Minus Knight Rider 2000. Universal is very picky at what they do. House MD never came out on BD, in the US.” From a recent Fabulous Films interview:

            “1) You recently allowed us to break the news of some excellent classic TV coming to Blu-ray (A-Team, Miami Vice, Magnum PI, Knight Rider, and The Incredible Hulk). Can you divulge some more information about the masters being used for the transfers, packaging style, possible price points, all original music included etc?

            NBC Universal have been internally restoring a lot of their assets for digital purposes, yet a lot of the time, they have no intention of releasing on Blu-ray or re-releasing the restored versions on DVD, due to the reducing home entertainment market. That is where we come in and we try to convince them there may be a small market for the product. We are reversioning the artwork based on the previous international DVD releases. As far as we know all the original music is included – there rarely is a problem with NBC Universal shows. As you know, the production costs for making Blu-rays is significantly higher than DVDs. These sets are likely to sell no more than 5% of what the DVD complete version has historically done. These editions are as good as you are ever going to get and they are a great collector or gift item. For example, all 4 seasons of Knight Rider will be on 20 Blurays, the RRP is likely to be about £149.99, which means Amazon will be selling for about £100. Until the manufacturing costs come down, it is difficult for an independent label like ours to compete with studios pricing. We have fixed royalties, fixed distributing costs and fixed sales costs. Studios absorb this all internally, which always makes our products dearer.” http://www.dvdcompare.net/features/fabulousfilms_interview.php

          • archer923

            That guy in the Rescue Ranger thread was jsut spewing crap. I don’t know wtf that was about. Here’s how I know.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d9b2dab3aa5fd962e48b9ea3c20cbe04193495a5c049fee69dd1d445975154d7.jpg

          • Pedro Ferreira

            I’m glad Rescue Rangers is in HD but I have some questions. I wonder why he came to that conclusion? Do you know what cartoon series pre-2000 have had an HD release on itunes? Good screenshot example you gave although I would love to see a timed screenshot comparison so I can see the before and after. Do you know why this series was found with film masters and not DuckTales or Talespin? Also do you think it’s possible we’ll get HD versions of Gummi Bears?

            So the guy from Fabulous Films was wrong? He talked about how Universal is remastering it’s shows and how it’s mostly simple to get the original music from NBC Universal so maybe Knight Rider’s music will be uncut?

            Also in regards to Quantum Leap why do you think the show alternated to blurry shots every now and again? I still don’t understand why the show had so much grain.

          • archer923

            “I’m glad Rescue Rangers is in HD but I have some questions. I wonder
            why he came to that conclusion?”

            I have no clue. Just doing a basic look at the preview and the DVD. Would show it was properly done. And not faked.

            “Do you know what cartoon series pre-2000 have had an HD release on itunes?”

            Some of the classic pink panther cartoons have hd versions. Some of the Peanuts films. That I can think of.

            “Do you know why this series was found with film masters and not DuckTales or Talespin?”

            Producers do have a right to pick if they want to work on tape or film. As long as it fits within the studios budget.

            The guys on RR could of been more caring for quality. Or because the main cast was only 3 people. They had money to spare, than Ducktales etc. Or that RR was in a more complete shape (so far). Than the other series. The reverse of Transformers G1. Ducktales in some places would insert video into tv screens, as a post effect. Rather than animating them normally.

            They could be remastering the other shows. We just don’t know about it. And could be taking more time. Compared to RR.

            “Also do you think it’s possible we’ll get HD versions of Gummi Bears?”

            Really doubt that one.

            “So the guy from Fabulous Films was wrong? He talked about how Universal is remastering it’s shows and how it’s mostly simple to get the original music from NBC Universal so maybe Knight Rider’s music will be uncut?”

            I’m not saying he’s directly wrong. But he could of just replied on the fly. Or simplified it. But HD scanning was done, for the DVD releases. There’s like only 2 or 3 songs removed from KR, in the S2 DVD set. So It would be a lot easier to clear those rights. Compared to Quantum Leap.

            “Also in regards to Quantum Leap why do you think the show alternated to blurry shots every now and again?”

            VFX shot could cause the blurring. Compared to the straight live action scenes. Camera was out of focus. List goes on.

            “I still don’t understand why the show had so much grain.”

            Film type they used, light levels, film size being smaller. To save money.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            “Really doubt that one.” Is it the same reason for Ducktales and Talespin?

            “There’s like only 2 or 3 songs removed from KR, in the S2 DVD set. So It would be a lot easier to clear those rights. Compared to Quantum Leap.” Ok, I get it, thanks!

            “VFX shot could cause the blurring. Compared to the straight live action scenes. Camera was out of focus. List goes on.” It tended to happen during no effects scenes and when I say blur, now that I remember it was a video blur like it switched from film to blurry video for a second. Happened on Eerie Indiana but only a few times (the show only lasted 19 episodes).

            “Film type they used, light levels, film size being smaller. To save money. Stargate SG-1 was shot on 16mm. So seasons 1-3 are grainy.” You know I’ve seen the first three seasons of SG-1 on DVD and actually don’t have a problem. If no one had told me they used 16mm I would never have noticed. Quantum Leap on the other hand looks terrible. Compared to Universal shows from the 80s looks really rough.

            I do wonder if CBS will release MacGyver on bluray.

          • archer923

            Gummi Bears is just the least talked about Disney show. So I see it at most being remastered last. Out of every other show.

            “It tended to happen during no effects scenes and when I say blur, now
            that I remember it was a video blur like it switched from film to blurry
            video for a second. Happened on Eerie Indiana but only a few times (the
            show only lasted 19 episodes).”

            Then it has to be some sort of transfer to tape issue. If it was only in certain places.

            I do wonder if CBS will release MacGyver on bluray.

            This is another not high popular show. I can see them doing it. But it wouldn’t be such a high priority. Though, it’s possible the show might have final film master, for maybe season 1.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            “Gummi Bears is just the least talked about Disney show. So I see it at most being remastered last. Out of every other show.” Well I mention it as it was very popular at the time and lasted the longest. It was seen as a better show than Talespin anyway. Any cartoon from back then was better than Talespin.

            “Then it has to be some sort of transfer to tape issue. If it was only in certain places.” Maybe. I tried to find a clip from Eerie Indiana to highlight what I mean as I know it seems to happen just before the show goes to commercials or the end credits. That show was definitely filmed on film so the blurry video effect would obviously affect the episodes when as you say transferred.

            “This is another not high popular show. I can see them doing it. But it wouldn’t be such a high priority.” It’s a really popular cult show and with the new (but terrible looking) remake coming out I have a feeling they might.

    • David Dennis

      How will “costs come down” if the main cost is the intense labor process of re-editing the episodes from the original film elements? The cheapest time to do it was 3 years ago when the team was assembled and ready to go. As others have said, plenty of folks don’t care if what they watch is SD and we’re talking about a 20 year old show when the style of modern TV storytelling has completely changed. To younger people DS9 and Voyager are almost as quaint as Gunsmoke and Bonanza. Trek diehards will just have to get used to watching these shows in SD.
      Compromise ideas are maybe only having the live action elements in HD and upscaling the FX or perhaps only doing a “best of” with the main arcs of DS9 done (Klingon/Dominion wars.) I would buy a seven or ten disc set of the top 30-40 episodes, but I think the majority are all or nothing type folks.

      • archer923

        I’d personally accept the VFX being upscaled. DS9 and VGR are new enough. That they don’t look like ass, like the TNG tape masters.

      • Pedro Ferreira

        It really depends on the consumer buying through stuff like Itunes. Will they feel cheated it they’re watching a series in SD? I personally think a lot of casual viewers will complain especially as TVs get more sophisticated. The costs will come down as everyone starts doing this. As mentioned already Universal has already started remastering their shows in HD, agreed they’re shows on film but it’s still a promising start considering you wouldn’t expect them to do this five years ago.

  • David Dennis

    Sad thing is that as late as 2001, they were editing Voyager on tape. Did they not see HD coming? As early as 1997 the X Files were shot in widescreen (although not aired that way) so that in the future they could be show to audiences in newer formats. They were able to get away with upscaling the FX and only have the live action in HD.

    • archer923

      A lot of shows did that. It wasn’t worth their time. Doctor Who was offered HD cams. And didn’t use them till 10th doctor movie special 2. Lord Of The Rings has only a 2k master. It’s all upscale, from this point forward.

      • David Dennis

        Yeah, there was a lot of short-sighted people who were caught by surprise that HD was coming. But you would think that a show that was as sold and re-sold as Trek has been, would have wanted to future-proof their product.
        I won’t buy DS9/Voyager on DVD because if they ever do upgrade it-I’m out a lot of money and after watching almost everything in HD– it just looks so blurry to me. So they could have my money but they have to earn it by giving me a 21st century quality product and not a hold over from a cost-saving measure from 30 years ago.

        • archer923

          Me, I don’t care owning DS9 & VGR on DVD and BD. Because like TNG. They aren’t 100% identical. Due to the lost footage, and SD only elements. So having both the remaster for TNG and original broadcasts is beneficial.