Good news for those of who have been hoping to get one of the Star Trek family behind the camera — Star Trek: The Next Generation actor and prolific television director Jonathan Frakes will beam up to Toronto to direct one of Discovery‘s first season episodes.

Star Trek: Discovery producers Aaron Harberts and Gretchen Berg previously paired with Frakes on the WB series Roswell, and revealed the news today to Entertainment Weekly.

“Jonathan Frakes will rejoin the Trek world with DISCOVERY,” writer-producer Gretchen J. Berg told EW. “He’s a fantastic guy and great director.”

Added fellow showrunner Aaron Harberts: “Our cast is dying to work with him.”

Frakes, who got his directing start in TNG’s third season (with “The Offspring”), went on to direct fourteen Trek television episodes in total, and of course two of his crew’s big-screen adventures, both Star Trek: First Contact (1996) and Star Trek: Insurrection (1998).

Since graduating from the Trek cast, he’s also had a long career in episodic television directing going back nearly two decades.

  • pittrek

    Wow, so he’s doing BOTH Orville and Discovery?

    • TIG1701

      It sounds like he has a much bigger role with Orville also producing the show as well IIRC.

  • Vger64

    This is going to be good folks

  • M33

    He directed a few of the Librarians as well.

    • M33

      But First Contact was his pinnacle.

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        Yea, he never really achieved that sort of success again. Insurrection was a huge step down from First Contact. It was like Matrix 2.

  • Eric

    Correction: Jonathan Frakes’ directorial debut was “The Offspring,” from TNG.

    • jerr

      half the title was correct 🙂

  • Mo

    I think we should all be thankful that TNG, DS9, and VOY afforded its actors the opportunity to learn how to direct for television.

  • David Lund

    Excellent news – reminded me that we’ve not heard who each eps director is yet, wonder who else has been working on it

  • sweet news!!

  • Harry Kane

    Excellent!!!! Might actually make discovery good

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      Didn’t you already say this slightly differently in two other posts here?

      I get it, dude — you like this. 🙂

    • TIG1701

      Lets hope so!

  • Harry Kane

    Now this is the best news yet, Someone who actually knows Trek and how to Direct it!

    • Lee O.

      I’m curious how his style has changed.

      • Eric Cheung

        Well, he’ll probably have to conform somewhat to the house style established by David Semel, the director of the first episode. His most recent work has been with the show The Librarians, but he’s also worked on NCIS: Los Angeles, Leverage, and Burn Notice, among other shows.

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      “Insurrection” just called to say “hi”

      • Dan King

        Insurrection was a good movie. Perhaps you missed the message?

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          5 of us walked out of Insurrection. I liked Nemesis better.

          Insurrection is a pretty bad movie.

          • DC Forever

            It’s not that bad, but it’s entirely forgettable, and certainly a missed opportunity coming after First Contact.

            Insurrection could’ve been the movie that set up TNG movies for a much longer run, but Frakes and company screwed it up.

          • TIG1701

            Yeah it was forgettable. Oddly the same way Beyond is pretty forgettable. But I don’t blame Frakes though, I actually blame Patrick Stewart and the studio and made all the changes to the script. Frakes didn’t have any real demands on it. He just shot the film that was written.

          • iMike

            I think Beyond is more “Star Trek” than “Into Darkness” could ever hope to be. “ID” is a pathetic Khan rip-off, in my humble opinion. It lacked heart and spirit, which “Beyond” offered in spades.

            I enjoyed “Insurrection,” though clearly it was a weaker follow-up to “First Contact.” It did seem more episodic than cinematic.

          • TIG1701

            I don’t disagree with you there. Beyond was still pretty forgetful though even if a decent movie. Like Insurrection it felt more like a big budget episode. STID was just total dog shit.

          • Ace Stephens

            Beyond hit the right beats but did nothing of particular note that I recall (even if we have an earlier captain and such now…). I suppose if they make more and Jaylah is around, it will mean more. I think they maybe could have improved things by skipping ID and/or ID’s “Kirk death” (but not really) ending and instead have Kirk sacrifice himself in Beyond. That would be a very interesting place to leave off if no more are made and, if they are, grab a one-liner or whatever from Beyond that alluded to something off to the side and bring back Kirk’s father in an “afterlife-or-is-it”-thing for 4. So that ties in and develops bits of character and plot from Beyond…with the “death” and all making it feel more significant moving forward.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Pick your poison: First Contact, Insurrection or Nemesis.

          • Dan King

            Frakes did fine, it was Stewart’s script changes and demands that doomed the movie

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            It’s a shitty director who loses control over the writers – that is part of the job of being a good director.

          • Ace Stephens

            In some cases, where one is actually in charge, yes.

            But in the case of Frakes, he’s not in charge of that. The producers are. He’s more of a hired hand there to do a job to suit what they ask. (Which is why, while it’s nice to have “family” back for this, it doesn’t really mean a ton to me. Meyer and similar folks in the writer’s room did since they more directly influence narrative.)

            And this is one of the main reasons we hear about an exciting director joining a project and then “creative differences” getting in the way. It usually means, in relation to directors, “Producers won’t let the directors direct as much as the director feels is necessary.

          • Dan King

            I love how you call Frakes a shitty director when he has done more in his life than you will ever do, and has more money than you will make for the rest of your life. Lol

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I said no such thing. I made a general statement about a key best practice of directors needing to have control over the writers.

            So if you are in fact suggesting that Frakes lost control of the writers, then you are inferring that my statement applies to Frakes. I never said that.

            So you tell me — did Frakes as a director take the necessary control over the writers on Insurrection to make the movie the best it could be?

          • DC Forever

            Given the success of First Contact, I do think Frank’s could have taken more directorial control over Insurrection. Sometimes he’s just too nice of a guy.

            Overall though, he’s a good director, but more for TV than movies .

          • Dan King

            What kind of fan walks out of a new Star Trek movie ??

          • TIG1701

            And it wasn’t even that bad. It just felt like a forgettable big budget episode. It wasn’t great either though but nothing for people to walk out on.

          • Laven Pillay

            This is almost exactly what I feel.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            One who really, really, cares, to the point of being a character fault.

          • M33

            Who cares? They already got 5 people’s money!!

          • Tone

            One that does not like to be force-fed crap?

          • Laven Pillay

            If that’s the case they probably walk out of a LOT of movies ;p
            Also…..define “crap” 😉

          • DC Forever

            If you post 3 more supposedly humorous quips here, that will give you 5 total. What a funny guy! You should try out your talents at the Improv…not!

            I can definitely see a case, after the great First Contact, of a very dissapointed fan walking out halfway through Insurerection.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Yea, Insurrection was so disappointing to my group of friends and I, all hard core TOS fans who really liked First Contact though, that we went to bar to vent. Then we did come back and see the midnight show though, so we did watch the entire movie.

            Our reaction to Insurrection on opening night was like, “are you kidding us?..this is the follow-up to First Contact?..what the fX#K is this?..this is like season 1…this is a silly little movie”

            All of the momentum from First Contact was lost with Insurrection. There might have been a decade of TNG movies if they had followed up First Contact with a really good movie — like the original movies did with Star Trek III and IV being such quality “big story” movies with gravitas that followed WOK.

            So yea, I walked out of Insurrection, and I’d do it again. No apologies. That movie killed all momentum in what might have been a very long run on TNG movies.

          • Dan King

            Perhaps you missed the intense violence of first contact, and was bored by the intellectual challenge that insurrection presented?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Star Trek into Darkness had a similar message, but that movie sucked as well. Good messages with intellectual challenges, but bad movies that disrupted franschise momentum and audience growth.

            Maybe if I watched Insurrection with you on your 4:3 old style TV to avoid the awful black bars, I’d like it more? Does Insurrectrion benefit from having the black bars removed?

          • Laven Pillay

            *clap hands*
            Well, done, you can count to 5 !
            If you keep learning, you might be able to get all the way up to 10 some day ! 🙂

            >> You should try out your talents at the Improv…not!
            Wow. That’s really fresh. I’ve never heard that one before…
            Also, unless “The Improv” is a venue, I think you meant to say just “improv”.
            I’m also a pedant, you see.
            🙂

            PS : Humour is subjective – I can guarantee some folks got at least a chuckle out of that, and _those_ are fun people 🙂

            Thank you folks, I’ll be here all week.
            Oh wait, you told me NOT to do “the improv”, right ? ;p

            PPS : Just having fun. Chill out, if you’re getting too upset 🙂

          • DC Forever

            I did mean the venue. Your act would be the 1:45 AM “groaner” when the place is only 1/3 full. (-;

            BTW, I agree with others here that your avatar really does look like an insect with yellow boobies…just saying. 🙂

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            “BTW, I agree with others here that your avatar really does look like an insect with yellow boobies…just saying. :-)”

            Thank you! Yea, what the hell is that — an insect stripper? LOL

          • Dan King

            A you trolling ?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Thank you!

          • Dan King

            No one fo forced him to purchase a ticket. Besides, if he walked out he has no authority to critique it as he has never seen it in it’s intended form on the big screen.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            “as he has never seen it in it’s intended form on the big screen.”

            Really? What happened to all of your arguments about forcing the aspect ratio down to 16×9 to give you all of those pixels you crave?

            So now, ALL OF A SUDDEN, you care about the director’s vision in seeing it as intended?

            LOL — make up your mind…which is it, Pixel King?

          • Dan King

            I just can’t fathom a fan walking out of a new movie without seeing it through.

          • DC Forever

            Funny how you are so insistent about demanding artists to give you productions to match your TV configuration, yet you seem so intolerant of other viewers rights to make the ultimate negative review and walk out of a movie in progress? Seems hypocritical?

            On average, I would say, my wife and I walk out of about 2 movies per year. And we take the extra stop of requesting a refund at the box office. Most people don’t realize you can do this — it’s not a big deal, and they will give you complementary exchange tickets that you can use for a future movie.

            Not sure what are your big issue is with this? If you get a bad meal, do you just mentally suck it up, and eat it anyway, and pay the bill? We certainly don’t.

          • Dan King

            Only arrogant and uptight people walk out of a movie. Come on, how pretentious can one be? Watch the entire thing and judge it.

            No one has the authority to bash a movie if they walked out on it. It’s absurd .

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I can’t help you if you don’t have a quality filter and will sit through crap. That’s your problem, not mine. I have standards and expectations…you don’t.

            It’s absurd to sit there like a cog in the machine in George Orwell’s 1984 and just take what is being fed to you when you don’t like it. I thought communism was largely extinct in the world today, and I have a right to assemble and free speech?

            And I did go back and see that crappy movie — and I will continue to say it’s crap ad infinitum here despite you fake-ass attempts to keep pretending that you missed my multiple posts where I told you that I did go back and see the full movie.

          • Laven Pillay

            A Star Wars fan ? 😉

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Says the person who’s avatar looks like an insect with big boobs. LOL

          • Laven Pillay

            Bwaahahah ! How is that even a comeback to what I said ? 🙂
            Also, I know we live in “gender fluid times” these days, but try not to be an idiot. You see “two patches on the chest” and think that’s “boobs” ? What are you, 12-years old ? 🙂

            Homework for you :
            1. Answer my first question – if you can.
            2. Do a search for “the darkness comic” – if you want to educate yourself, of course.
            Totally optional 🙂

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You are calling me 12 years old with that corny avatar? :-)) The humor in that is perhaps only exceeded by the humor in a fan of some horror-superhero comic book series trying to put down Star Wars fans. LOL^2

            Sharpen your pencil and come back here with better material next time.

          • Laven Pillay

            Whoa dude. Did someone upset you today ?
            It was meant to be a bit of “Internet fun” – but this is the problem with people like you – waaaaaaay too emotional about things that we should realise doesn’t need to go that way.
            We’re talking about freakin’ movie and comics and other forms of literature and entertainment. I also take aspects of that very seriously, but I always remind myself that at the end of the day, while many of us see it as Art, it’s also entertainment.
            You made a LOT of assumptions about what I meant, what I was saying, and you got way more upset than you needed to – all of that is sorta fine cos we can’t control that.
            If you’re trolling/messing with me – all good 🙂
            But if you’re actually upset and actually angry at me – then that’s an example of the negative aspect of the communication over the Internet.
            Go wild taking the piss and mocking me – no probs, I enjoy the “challenge”, but if you’re actually upset…. then you might be younger than 12 ? 🙂

            PS : Please tell me you were joking and that you don’t actually believe that “comics are for kids” ? Cos if you do I’ll be “forced” to send you a ton of links to help educate you.
            The links will include information about award winning writers and artists who are world renowned for creating some of the best literature ever created.
            That picture I put there is from The Darkness which was co-created by Marc Silvestri and Michael Turner – go read up about them.
            The subject of that comic, as the name implies, is about The Darkness which resides in all humans and how it manifests – that’s the philosophy. The implementation has loads of action, guns, blood and death – so there’s something for folks who want there brains stimulated, and for those who want a “good comic”.
            If you ACTUALLY think that “comcis are for kids”…. well, I’ll guess that you’re probably not interested in literature in general. If not, let me know and we can have a more serious discussion about the MEDIUM of “comics and graphic novels”.
            🙂

            *goes back to sharpening pencils…..*

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            3 posts and a treatise in response to me?

            LOL — I think I’ll wait for the movie adaptation of your posts. :-))

          • Laven Pillay

            >> I think I’ll wait for the movie adaptation of your posts
            But hang on….if you’re “the Oracle”, shouldn’t you already know the future ? ;p

            Also, in my experience, anyone who says “I’ll wait for the movie” isn’t very good at reading….. 🙂
            But that also explains why you don’t understand the medium of comics – you obviously just “waited for the movie”.
            And why so long for me to reply ? On weekends I don’t spend much time on the Internet – I read. You know, books and ….. comics 🙂

            Can’t wait to see the next zinger you hit me with ! 🙂
            Mr Oracle, sir.
            🙂

            PS : Take your time, this thread is going to be on the internet a long time, so you don’t want to keep on embarrassing yourself too much 🙂

            PPS : For everyone else, I’m just having a bit o fun 🙂

          • Laven Pillay

            Hehe. I just noticed that your name is “Science Fiction Oracle” – somehow I doubt you’re that wise – especially since so much of excellent science fiction is in…… COMICS !!! 🙂
            Mr. Oracle.

          • Laven Pillay

            >> Sharpen your pencil and come back here with better material next time.

            You want _better_ than 10 out of 10 ?
            Wow, you’re demanding !
            🙂

            (your turn)

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            A fan who has just come to realize that the franchise is headed down the shitter based on the extremely disappointing experience of the movie.

          • TIG1701

            So you walked out the movie….only to return later to watch it again? Huh?

            Its amazing all your friends think alike though. Did they go back after walking out the first time? How many beers did you have to drink to convince yourselves to pay for a film again you already thought was a waste of money the first time? Strange but welcome the world of Trekkies I guess.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Yep, it was a weird and strange evening. Several beers! LOL

          • Dan King

            Lol!

          • Ace Stephens

            I agree with the “Basically felt like a more expensive and extended ‘okay’ episode of the series” people.

        • Mr. Lister

          Ditto

        • DC Forever

          I agree with you on the message. But that’s mainly all the film had going for it. Heck, Into Darkness had a great message, but the film itself was as lame as Insurrection.

          It was so disappointing to see this movie after First Contact. It reminded me of watching Star Trek V after Star Trek IV. We get this great movie with all this gravitas and scope, and then the next one is only like an average episode from the series.

          • Dan King

            Everyone would be praising insurrection if it came out before first contact

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            That’s like saying the Spam would be loved if had been introduced after Velvetta.

          • Roger Birks

            I think maybe a film that dealt with Data’s evil twin would have been interesting.

          • DC Forever

            That would have been a good idea!

          • Roger Birks

            It seems like a logical idea. Lore was a popular villian, like the Borg were, from the series.

            It could have been a sort of road movie, Lore having some plan or something, to create an evil race of androids. Picard and Data having to thwart those plans. Something along these lines….

        • Pedro Ferreira

          It wasn’t perfect, it wasn’t great, it was okayish.

      • I enjoyed Insurrection.

      • pittrek

        What’s wrong with Insurrection? The last good Trek movie, even though a bit weaker than First contact.

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          It came across to me like a season 1 or 2 average episode — just kind of boring, and losing all of the grandeur that First Contact had just set up nicely for TNG movies.

          • TIG1701

            I blame the script more than I blame his direction though. And reading Michael Piller’s book on it and all the demands the studio made on him turned a strong story into a water down version.

            And I liked Insurrection, but yeah on the weaker side for sure.

            I still wish Frakes directed Beyond instead of Jusin Lin. They wanted the Fast and Furious guy and it seem like he only alienated a lot of the fan base.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I think if Discovery is a big hit, and assuming Paramount finally get’s it’s management and financials lined up, they will make another attempt at a JJ Trek movie.

            The first two movies made enough money that they can ignore the poor third showing, especially since the marketing was shit and they picked a bad release day.

          • TIG1701

            Yeah maybe but they might just be moving on to new ideas as well. But I agree they probably want to see how well Discovery does before they make another film whatever that is.

            I think the JJ Trek films have lost the hype they started with and Paramount seems to know that.

          • iMike

            Sad. I wish ‘Beyond’ had been the second film. It has more in common with Trek09, quality wise, than ‘Into Darkness.’

          • TIG1701

            I agree. I think STID just scared a lot of people away and then that shitty first trailer. But I agree if this was the second movie it probably would’ve gotten more interest at least even if the story feels pretty generic.

      • DC Forever

        Coming on the hills of First Contact, Insurrection was just such a lame little movie. Not a truly bad movie, but just so easily forgettable.

        • M33

          It was hard to top all the cool convergences that movie had:
          TOS connections
          Trek chronology
          Trek back story
          The Borg
          Time Travel
          New Ship
          New Uniforms
          BOBW connections
          Borg queen/Alice Krige
          Dixon Hill holodeck
          Spacewalk at deflector array
          Post World War III
          Fundamentals of Trek philiosphy

          Now compare that to Insurrection.
          It pales in comparison.

          • DC Forever

            Well put

  • Harry Kane

    Bringing Frakes onboard is top class

  • Ian Fleming

    The circle is complete.

  • Aurelio Lorenzo

    Sweet!

  • GIBBS v2

    Before we get too excited remember he directed Sub Rosa!

    • DJCo

      Thankfully though, he didn’t write it.

      • Dan King

        Brian Fuller wrote it lol

        • Brian

          The story was by Jeri Taylor; Teleplay by Brannon Braga. Bryan Fuller wasn’t involved, at least according to Memory Alpha.

        • DJCo

          Brannon Braga and Jeri Taylor. Fuller never worked on TNG.

        • Pedro Ferreira

          Might as well have.

    • pittrek

      Which is one of my favorite season 7 episodes 🙂

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      Agreed — one of the worst episodes of the entire series.

    • …and Francis Ford Coppola directed “Jack.”

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        Get back to we when Frakes starts collecting Oscars then. 🙂

        • Not really the point, but okay.

    • DC Forever

      Yea, and that mess was written by Fuller. LOL

    • Pedro Ferreira

      And also First Contact.

  • The Science Fiction Oracle

    Meh

    • Dan King

      Excellent news. Too bad you can’t realize this.

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        He’s a great guy — I’ve met him. Happy that he gets this opportunity, but not sure it really means much for this series, that’s all.

        • TIG1701

          At least with him on board he will get a lot of Trek fans a bit more hopeful who are very sour on this show so far. Seeing him directing will be a huge plus with the fan base. Now if they can get Riker in an episode. But not talking to the crew via holodeck. Uh, no.

        • Dan King

          It means a lot. The people running the show are not very professional. Frakes brings actually talents to the show.

          • TIG1701

            Oh Reddit, the news has already gotten 5000 upvotes over it. People are really excited about him being part of the show, even if just an episode so far.

          • M33

            Upvotes are meaningless.

            Youll find that number or greater upvotes for
            McDonalds
            Red Dwarf
            Zima
            Marlboro
            Wheatgrass
            etc .

            Per percentage of the population or even % of the fan base, this is a insignificant figure.

          • TIG1701

            The point I’m making is this is clearly a win to have the guy on board. These hard core Trek fans. Casual fans don’t care either way. And no one has made a post there why its a bad idea….because for most it isn’t. Everyone loves him as a director even if they don’t love everything he’s directed.

          • M33

            He is well-liked in the industry, to boot.

          • Dan King

            He’s a class act that’s why, unlike Kate Mulgrew

          • TIG1701

            Yeah, why this is only good news. That said his direction isn’t going to make or break a show if the story he is directing is crap, as people keep pointing about Sub Rosa. But people have faith in him for a reason the same reason they had of Fuller and Meyer. They trust those guys and think they know the best for Trek (although the jury is still out if Fuller went the right direction with this show but we’re stuck with it now either way.)

          • TIG1701

            Just checked that thread again. Its now at nearly 9,000 two days later.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Next time I see Nick Meyer, who is a casual acquaintance of mine, I’ll pass along to him that you consider him unprofessional.

          • Dan King

            Feel free to do so. I find his career marginal at best.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Unlike of course, Jonathan Frakes storied career.

        • Roger Birks

          He will bring his huge experiences of working in the Star Trek world with him – he gets the franchise, he loves it like the fans do. He seems like a very easy going guy in appearances too, so he is a good choice as a director for the first season.

        • TIG1701

          If the show is truly shit, you’re right, one guy directing one episode can’t save it no matter how good that one episode is. There are plenty of good episodes in bad seasons of every Trek show….doesn’t help much if more are bad vs good.

          Still to me it at least says if Frakes wants to direct it, he sees potential in the show like I imagine Nick Meyer and other long time Trek vets who are working on it.

  • Mrplatitude

    He has directed a ton of TV episodes since his Trek days, so he’s got the experience plus the history with Trek so a great fit.

  • TIG1701

    This is only great news for the show. Having Frakes on board is exciting and that the production really is committed to having the team that understands Trek inside out.

    BTW, I wonder why Nick Meyer isn’t directing any episodes? He’s hired on as writer but the only one of the writers that actually has lots of directing credits including obviously two of Trek’s biggest films. Maybe it will come in time. Right now, I’m excited they got Frakes!

    • Matthew

      Agreed..every single other thing has been negative

  • Alan

    So he’s directing. Okay. I just hope he’s firing on the cylinders he was firing on whilst directing Star Trek: First Contact rather than those he was on for that episode “Sub Rosa” or that live-action Thunderbirds movie *shudders*.

    • Cabo 5150

      I see where you’re coming from on this, but I think it’s important not to conflate weak scripts with bad directing.

      Was his directorial technique actually any worse in “Sub Rosa” than, say, “The Drumhead”? The same goes for his silver screen outings – is the directorial style in “Thunderbirds” qualitatively worse than “First Contact”?

      • Roger Birks

        What about Insurrection, is the directing or script, which pulls the film down?

        I say the script does. Some say it is the directing, some say a little of both…..

    • iMike

      “Sub Rosa” was a horrible script that did nothing to further the development of a character who was continually shafted in storyline department. The only thing that made that episode remotely watchable was Frakes’ direction. There’s only so much one can do with an abysmal piece of writing.

  • Laughing Boy

    Frakes is a class act, but this show will still be a shitstorm.

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      Don’t quit your day job, Nostradamus. 😉

    • TUP

      Oh so you’ve seen it already?

      No? Figured.

  • Fiery Little One

    He’s directing at least one episode of the season? … I’m happy. *Most* of his output as a director was pretty decent. If anything hurt what he put out, it was the script.

  • D.J. Ammons

    I am pleased to see this news. Hopefully the producers will be pleased with his work and we will see him directing a lot more of Discovery. I have the greatest admiration for Jonathan Frakes as both an actor and director. Also nice to see this kind of connection between some old Trek and new Trek.

  • Locutus

    Not to make use of Mr. Frakes talents would be illogical. He’s going to do a great job. When given good material, he delivers!

  • iMike

    Perhaps this will open the door for other Trek directors …

  • Donny Pearson

    Awesome!

  • Rose

    Frakes
    should have put his eggs in to the Orville basket. At least it would be watched,
    and certainly more appreciated.

    Speaking of which, Orville’s ratings towering over STD will be the final nail
    in it’s coffin. The critical reviews of STD will have a field day.

    And good riddance too. What a disaster for the franchise, again.

    From what we can reasonably attribute so far, STD is putting an emphasis on expensive
    actors, expensive sets, in-universe name dropping, production name dropping,
    and screwing with continuity with zero regard to the franchise it’s supposed to
    be another (uninvited) prequel of.

    We’ve got a massive rip off in the VFX department by essentially stealing the gargantua black hole from Gravity, no doubt we’ll be screwing with time travel as a plot device from the outset.

    It blows my mind that they let this disaster get this far.

    As has been said repeatedly on a daily basis in forums and comments, Orville is guaranteed
    to get more substantial viewing figures, and that in it’s self will be more
    than enough to ensure STD is cancelled.

    By focusing STD on the TOS fanboy market, they have instantly astringed everyone
    else. And by all accounts the TOS fanboys don’t seem to understand why everyone has hated this atrocity from the word go, and won’t stop attacking our opinions of their beloved fanboy nonsense of 60 years hence.

    How did you like the ghostbusters reboot trailers?

    • M33

      I think your STD references are funny.
      I plan to fully watch and hopefully enjoy Discovery… though I am cautious, given what we have seen and have been told by showrunners that this may well be a big canon violator for the Prime Universe.

      Personally, I Love the idea of a direct TOS prequel… but it has to be done right. We shall see.

      It feels more like they are making the same mistake as they did with ENT– hoping non-Trek fans will watch it and ignore the canon-fudging.

      Doctor Who totally proves you can have your cake and eat it to with cheese-canon made believable. Just look at Peter Capaldi’s final episodes. Truly brilliant!

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/225b80a5041acf79670315cf4fac9c47cbd6dc10159d4cb2565c70e7701684f2.jpg

      • Dan King

        They are destroying canon in the prime universe, showrunners don’t care anymore about canon or what came before.

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          You have no real basis to say this until we actually see some of the episodes.

          You are basically just making shit up here and being a negative Nellie.

          • Dan King

            No I’m not. They basically said that they threw out the Roddenberry rule, and are basically doing what they want ignoring canon.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            What was your previous identify on this site before “Dan King”

            Your Disqus profile suggests you joined in the last week, and you certainly behave like you’ve been posting here for quite awhile?

          • Dan King

            I only discovered this site recently and decided to join the conversation. Lurker for a long time, finally was compelled to contribute.

          • TIG1701

            Man you don’t have to justify yourself. People can’t take different opinions, its their problem not yours. Someone accused me of being a sock puppet to another guy here a few months back as well. They act like as if since this is the first time someone joined this site recently its like its the first time they have talked about Star Trek online or something. Like we haven’t discussed it for years at other places like I imagine most of them. Mostly when they just disagree with your opinion.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Well said!

          • Dan King

            Thank you. I was worried that negative slanted comments would be deleted before I decided to post. There are aspects of the show I don’t like, and was afraid to post them as this site has a reputation of having sycophantic fans who say Star Trek can’t do any wrong. And the admins remove all negativity creating a very strange all-positive domain.

            I hope I am wrong. Respectful criticism is not wrong and should be allowed.

          • M33

            IDIC.
            More than an nice idea of nice combinations.
            It is a way of life.
            It is easy to be “accepting” of all ideas if they are all basically the same.
            It is the core of IDIC and the 1st Amendment that we have freedom to express of every idea, even the ones we thoroughly find we disagree with.
            However, even though this is true, keep in mind when people resort to attacks to attempt to win their arguements or try bullying you out of speaking because they don’t like what you’ve said, you’ve actually won the arguement because they are out of material on which to make their point with.
            It is a fine line, but it is clear between insult and disagreement.

          • TIG1701

            Alright fair enough!

          • Dan King

            Thanks for explaining. It’s strange and scary to get sudden accusations and frankly paranoia when you start to post because someone is fearful of other posters?

          • DC Forever

            You were not around here when “Michael” was posting 25 negative posts per day and making up that he had fake inside sources, etc. You then did just start posting here only a week after Michael was banned, and with you posting so often and with an very argumentative “bull in a china shop” approach, its only natural that the regulars here were suspicious of you. For a time, I thought you might be him.

          • TIG1701

            That guy Michael was banned? The one who said he had inside source about Discovery but then said the info was ‘wrong’ but then said he found another guy who was now giving him correct info? Yeah that guy sounded like a weirdo. I hate when people do things like that just for attention.

            Good riddance.

          • Dan King

            I understand. What I am concerned about is you said it is wrong to post negative stuff. Are we only allowed to post positive stuff and be sycophants? People have some valid dislikes of the show, along with things they like. I hope this place does not turn into an echo chamber where all negative opinions are silenced and people are banned.

          • DC Forever

            Dan, think it’s wrong to post like 25 negative post per day on a site – day after day, week after week. To me that’s trolling.

            Otherwise I agree with you.

          • M33

            LOL
            While I agree with this concept… it suddenly made me aware that all our American media outlets have become “news trolls”, because they fit the same criterion!

          • Eric Cheung

            Even Roddenberry broke that rule in early TNG. I always figured the spirit of the rule allowed good people with differing opinions to argue their points on how to achieve the same goals. As long as the characters aren’t selfish, then I think the rule will be preserved, no matter what the writers actually say.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            The Rodenberry rule wasn’t in effect in TOS, and this series comes before that. So that is just a completely dumb-ass argument, no offense.

          • DC Forever

            Yea, the Roddenberry rule in canon doesn’t start until the 24th century in Star Trek, so TOS and before is exempt. It would be violating canon to introduce it for this series, which is a decade before TOS.

          • Dan King

            Have you seen the trailer? I counted at least 15 canon violations in the trailer alone

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You always just throw out this blanket statements, but you NEVER back them up like the rest of us here. If I said that, I would list the 15 canon violations…but that’s just me.

          • DC Forever

            Dan, could you please list them?

      • TIG1701

        “It feels more like they are making the same mistake as they did with ENT– hoping non-Trek fans will watch it and ignore the canon-fudging.”

        This is exactly the problem. Of course the biggest IMO is just another tired ass prequel most people don’t even seem to want. But then to just disregard the look of the show its trying to follow is bizarre. At least with Enterprise it actually look like it fit in the same universe, even if it still looked a bit too advance in some places (when compared to TOS).

        Now its like they just said the hell with it and ignored it completely. To me this and Enterprise are heading down the same direction. It doesn’t mean the show can’t be better than Enterprise but it still looks like they are making the same mistakes that sunk that show. If its good no one will care. If its bad though…

    • Eric Cheung

      The critics won’t care about canon. They will grade DSC on whether or not the characters are engaging, whether or not the show is visually compelling, and whether or not the stories and themes make them think. They will not care nearly as much if they change things around canon-wise.

      Of course The Orville will most likely do better in the ratings than DSC. It’s entire run will be on a network, while DSC will be on a streaming service. For that reason, DSC will have a lower bar it has to clear.

      And the risk is low for Jonathan Frakes. It’s not like he doesn’t have plenty of work as a director. He has no need to “put his eggs in the Orville basket” because neither show will take up all his time. He’s a hired gun for the show, doing a favor for two shows he loves. He’s not a producer or writer on either.

      Are you referring to the black hole Gargantua from Interstellar? I don’t think there was a black hole in Gravity. And it would actually be really cool if they use something like that anyway, since the computer models for that black hole actually advanced the science of black holes.

      • Cabo 5150

        Well said, Eric.

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        Exactly!

      • Snap

        Yeah, Discovery is essentially a new take on Trek anyway and deserves to be judged on its own merits. The Orville looks like a fun show, but it also has the disadvantage of being on network TV where the instant gratification culture could lead to an early demise. I strongly doubt Discovery will have less than 2 seasons.

        It’s going to be an interesting ride.

    • TUP

      What are you nattering on about?

      I strongly suspect Discovery outlasts Orville but you will come along with some defense as to why. Besides which, the ratings wouldnt be an apples to apples comparison with one airing on Network TV and the other on a streaming service.

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      Hi Michael!

    • Dan King

      While Orville looks awesome, I think Discovery might have some legs. Time will tell if the show will survive after butchering canon and the prime universe so badly.

    • TIG1701

      I completely agree with you about trying to appeal to old TOS fanboys as missing the mark but I still think Discovery can be a good show on its own. I have been pretty skeptical of some of the crap they released recently and still keeping that ugly ship but I still think we can get a good show out of it. And its nice they have people like Frakes there. And even then so far he’s only directing one episode, the show isn’t going to make or break because he’s there. But I have a feeling if he’s doing it, he’s doing it because he feels good about the show.

      And he’s a producer on Orville IIRC, he will be part of that show no matter what.

    • iMike

      One of the core ideals of Star Trek – of any iteration of Trek – is to look at things with an open mind and a fresh perspective. Since you are so sure DSC (by the way, STD is by no means cute) is going to be cancelled, how many of the completed episodes have you been privileged to get an advanced screening of?

  • Dan King

    Please be a prequel to “Sub Rosa” !!! The fans have been waiting for a prequel for so many years!!!

  • Dan King

    I think the name Shenzhou is a major clue itself. It translates to “Divine Craft”, “Divine Vessel of God”, or “Magic Boat”

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      Michael?

      • Dan King

        Why do you keep saying “Michael” on random posts??

        I looked up the meaning of “Shenzhou” on Wikipedia and China currently has a satellite or had one in orbit named Shenzhou.

  • Robin

    still not going to pay CBS to watch… sorry

  • Dan King

    I hope it will stream in 4K. I would pay more for that

  • Muldfeld

    Frakes is good, but Levar Burton did phenomenal work on “Deep Space Nine” — just incredible casting (Weyoun) and directing.

  • Pedro Ferreira

    Having Frakes direct an episode doesn’t necessarily mean it;s going to be good. The whole show looks mediocre at the moment so not going to raise my hopes up with this news.

    • Dan King

      What aspect looks bad to you?

      • Pedro Ferreira

        Every single thing in the trailer plus those behind it.

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          That’s just wack to say that. “Every single thing?” Seriously???

          I don’t think this, but others viewing your post here might easily conclude that this is a just a lazy remark.

          • Dan King

            I think he just dislikes the shows for the sake of disliking it. Some people enjoy complaining. He has the right to voice his displeasure at what he sees of course even if others don’t agree.

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Well there isn’t enough of the music for me to comment. The transporter so far doesn’t look very good, space background no idea wasn’t paying attention to that just the awful CGI. The characters so far don’t interest me.

        • Dan King

          So I assume you won’t be giving the show a chance at all, and won’t watch it?

          • Pedro Ferreira

            Maybe I’ll wait a couple of years. I sure ain’t paying to see it.

          • Roger Birks

            We will see a lot more of the show before the launch. You may change your mind. Still a good 70+ days to go yet…..

          • Pedro Ferreira

            It’ll take a lot.