Over the weekend we brought you all the news on Eaglemoss’ expanding Official Starships Collection, as the line grows to include forthcoming ships from Star Trek: Discovery at the end of the year.

While he didn’t feature them on the panel aside from a brief glance on stage, Eaglemoss’ Ben Robinson showed off his prototype, unpainted sample designs of the USS Shenzhou and USS Discovery models at his STLV convention booth later that day.

The USS DISCOVERY prototype model.
A few looks at the USS SHENZHOU prototype model.

Keep in mind these are early test models and do not feature final textures or details which are subject to change before the final versions arrive from the Official Starships Collection in the coming months.

Here’s a comparison of the test model ship next to the Shenzhou featured in the most recent Star Trek: Discovery trailer:

Keep checking back with TrekCore for more news on Star Trek: Discovery as it breaks!

Thanks to fan Jesse Davis for sharing these photos with us.

  • Trent

    The Shenzhou looks good ,but for some reason when I see it inverted it looks better !
    The Discovery looks like a bad design the more I see of it.

    • TIG1701

      I really want to like the Discovery but its so damn ugly. Hopefully the final product will persuade me but I still have no idea what they were thinking with that ship? With all the incredible designs that has came from Trek in the last 30 years they pick one of the ugliest/awkward looking ships ever. Quite amazing.

  • prometheus59650

    Discovery needs some adornment. That smooth hull does NOT flatter that design.

    • Just remember, early prototypes. Lots of detail and texture not yet included.

      • prometheus59650

        One hopes.

        Still, right now, it’s the Shenzhou that really moves me.

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        Let’s hope not too much…love the cleaner, less busy look!!!

      • TIG1701

        I hope you’re right. It still looks ugly as sin to me.

    • The Science Fiction Oracle

      The smooth hull is f’ing awesome…finally, back to TOS/TMP era “clean designs.”

      I”VE BEEN WAITING 30 YEARS FOR THIS “RETURN TO FORM” IN STAR TREK STARSHIP DESIGN PHILOSOPHY!

      • prometheus59650

        No windows…no nothing. There’s “clean design” and there’s empty space.

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          Well, that just the lack of detail in that model. I’d be shocked if there were actually no windows and a bit more detail?

          • Nowhereman10

            You haven’t kept up on it, have you? The Discovery herself has a TMP-style aztec hull patterning over it and there are windows both on the outer edge of the saucer and on the inside edges inside of the cutout areas. There are some TOS references on the ship with the triangles on the bottom as well as the top similar to the Enterprise and it has grills on the front of the stardrive hull also like the Enterprise followed by a notched area behind it.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You’re being obtuse. I was commenting on the smooth small scale model, and why it had not windows or detail.

            Pay attention, dude.

          • Nowhereman10

            I have. You’re just a thick old man. You could have been referring to either the Eaglemoss model or the CGI production model in the *second sentence*, especially again in context of the thread:

            Prometheus wrote:

            “No windows…no nothing. There’s “clean design” and there’s empty space.”

            You wrote:
            “Well, that’s just the lack of detail in that model. I’d be shocked if there were actually no windows and a bit more detail?”

            See what I mean? Now, thick as you are, Oracle, pay attention!

      • Locutus

        I agree. I prefer cleaner less busy as well.

  • The Science Fiction Oracle

    Love, love, love the Discovery. It’s like something the would have come up with in the late 70’s during all that great conceptual creativity for Phase II and TMP.

    Rick Sternbach is smiling somewhere right now!

    The Shenzhou: Meh — but I think they threw it in to give Berman-era fans something they can better relate to.

    • If it was the goal to please Berman era fans, the Shenzhou design accomplishes exactly the opposite.

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      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        It certainly looks to me like the kind of design we would get it Berman told Drexler, “ignore TOS ships and give me a ship that is 80 years after the NX-01, but is evolutionary in design from the NX-01”

        A number of other fans, and I think Trekcore staff, have also commented how this design is evolutionary from the NX-01.

        • Registry of the Shenzhou is NCC-1226. Registration of the Enterprise (launched 10 years before Discovery takes place) is NCC-1701.

          The Shenzhou might be 40 years old, we don’t know.

      • James

        Can you elaborate on that Bernd. It looks like the Akiraprise to me. I think spherical nacelles would help the design. It’s also remarkable how similar it is to the Ares, from Axanar. No wonder they were shut down.

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          I think the Franklin looks more like the Akira then the Shenzhou does.

        • It’s somehow like Akiraprise but much closer to the 24th century. It has the typical panels with odd angles and the tapered shapes that can be found on many designs by John Eaves, as if he had been told “Forget about the 23rd century. Design starships that look the same as always”.

          • James

            Agreed. The Discovery looks better in my opinion. I like the Pasteur like ball in the centre of the saucer and the wing like struts for the nacelles. According to Gabe Koerner, the designers were told that the nacelles couldn’t be circular.

            Perhaps Shenzou is from the future?

          • Thomas Elkins

            Personally I sort of look at it like certain aircraft designs. When I think “flying wing” I think of the B-2 Spirit bomber, but the design that inspired that bomber goes all the way back to WWII. It’s just one of those designs that was experimented with a long time ago, but never really went anywhere until decades later when technology caught up. If that makes any sense.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/79c03780ab5f0eef937b42ef34290bbb5bf781eee255241d15234b12ee51c535.jpg

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Love that old photo. I always wondered what the guy in the back did?

          • Well, the same reasoning was already used by Doug Drexler regarding the Akiraprise. It most likely won’t work because all Federation ships except for the Discovery will look like the Shenzhou.

    • Quonk

      Agreed. No matter how much all this talk about “grittiness” and a Klingon War story arc has curbed my optimism, whenever I see the Discovery’s design it puts a smile on my face.

    • TIG1701

      You do realize nearly all the writers minus one actually worked under Berman or wrote stories created from his shows.

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        Yep, which makes it so weird with all of the criticism of Discovery here from fans of the Berman-era series’, wouldn’t you say? Counter intuitive!

        • TIG1701

          Well maybe because unlike you not everyone sees things in Trek as ‘Berman’ and ‘not Berman’? No offense man but you seem way too obsessed with that guy. You’re the only one that brings up his name every other statement. Did he piss in your cheerios?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Not a fan. He fixed TNG and gave Moore and others freedom to do DS9 — I respect that. But Voyager, Enterprise and TNG movies were just bad, First Contact the one exception, but even that movie doesn’t look so good anymore.

            And the way Kirk dies in Generations — that was unacceptable!!!

          • TIG1701

            Fine, but he hasn’t run Star Trek in 12 years now. I think you can move on from all the hostility and bitterness about it, right? My bitterness is with JJ and those crappy films but even I am finally letting go and thats been a lot more recent.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Relax. It’s a Star Trek site and I have strong opinions on many areas of the franchise, and like others, I share opinions here. I am not bitter or hostile, but upset and sarcastic at times, sure — I admit that. Your deal it seems to be is that you like to be grumpy and like to think you are “above the fray” here. We all have different online personalities.

          • TIG1701

            I’m not getting on your case if you don’t like the guy but you seem VERY obsessed with him. Notice no one else here has mentioned the guy but you. And everything is Berman this, Berman that. We get it. Same time he produced 600 episodes of Star Trek that is still shown world wide and every streaming site there is for generations to come. His work is just going to have an impact for better or for worse. In terms of Discovery, he’s not running it though, so relax. He hasn’t been in charge of any Trek since Enterprise ended. If you want to blame how the shitty JJ trek films turned out you have to blame someone else.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You seem way too concerned with what I think on this? Big deal, I’m not a Berman fan. I don’t hate the man, but I’m not a fan.

            It’s funny, you keep trying to come across on this and other topics to me and others as “calm down” or “this is boring,” or “this is unnecessary,” etc.

            Were just fans discussing Star Trek here. Yes, we get wound up on Star Trek topics and we have certain views, but you seem to get wound up too much on what others say or what topics people choose to discuss here?

    • Nowhereman10

      The McQuarrie/Ken Adams Enterprise concept was never for ST:Phase II, it was done for an early attempt at Star Trek movie called “Planet of the Titans” and Rick Sternbach had nothing to do with any of that.

  • Thomas Elkins

    No new look at the Discovery is making me like her. The Shenzhou still looks good, but she would look better with blue lights. I do look forward to seeing the models painted.

    • TUP

      Shenzhou looks great! Discovery, not so much.

  • Julian Glover

    the Shenzhou looks pretty cool, but does not look like something that would be made 10 years before kirk…

    • Thomas Elkins

      IMO, it’s her nacelles. If they swapped them out for something closer to NX-01 nacelles she might fit in better.

      • Darkthunder

        And change the deflector style

        • The Science Fiction Oracle

          Jeffries original intention was a radar-antenna looking communications dish. It wasn’t until later that they decided that it needed to be a deflector dish. They then remedied that in TMP re-fit design.

          TMP refit should really be the baseline that we measure other Trek series starship designs against. TOS model was like a prototype that represented the best they could do on a TV series roll-out. TMP was the final design. I know this pisses off the people wedded to canon, but it is what it is.

          • Darkthunder

            I have no problems with Discovery (the series), if it followed the style of TMP when it comes to ship design (and simply “ignore” the TOS era aesthetics). But my issue with Discovery, is that the style of both it, and the Shenzhou doesn’t fit in ANY era of the “Prime timeline”.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Well it does fit nicely with some of the starship concepts for Phase II that Roddenberry and Sternbach came up with in the late 70’s.

            If it doesn’t fit well in the existing prime timeline, part of the problem is that Berman/Drexler abandoned the clean TMP-era starship design history when they did the NX-01 design. That design never made sense for me given what we knew in canon from the previous Enterprise starship design that was actually shown in a scene from TMP in the main crew assembly area. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f403ea417c5678ac8e7476f45d0a6c178b5188bc6f567ce086aa846dfb9b460d.jpg

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            The XV-330 — the ship that should have been the starship on Enterprise if Berman hadn’t inexplicably overwritten Rodenberry’s previous Enterprise’s canon with his and Drexler’s boring and ugly design:

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/94ecf4a1d8db0a7b903eec5a0a2ab760ab485428a91b0fbe38fe0cc97c917333.jpg

          • TUP

            I assume they gave into their own fears that the ship HAD to look familar to Star Trek fans. Which is unfortunate as I would have loved a more “dangerous” space era.

            I would have liked the Deadelaus class as well. The ringed ship would have been good too/

            The whole Enterprise series era was so disappointing. I know the producers claim they wanted to stay on Earth for season 1 and were pressured not to by the studio but Im not sure I entirely buy that. Being forced into space is one thing but all the other ways they gave up on their “prequel” concept is something else.

          • Eric Cheung

            Both of those other designs are cool, but the ringed ship looked like it would have a smaller crew than I the NX-01, while the Daedelaus’ sphere implies a much larger crew of a slightly more established fleet. The size and shape of the NX-01 made sense.

            Not only that, but the Phoenix showed that the nacelle design was in the earliest warp ships, so I bet the XV-330 was a pre-warp ship, or possibly an attempt to integrate Vulcan technology. Maybe that early collaboration was a reason the Vulcan became wary of revealing too much.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            he original photo of the XV-330 on the wall of TMP was pretty rough — it certainly allowed enough leeway for Berman and Drexler to easily scale it up to fit the crew size.

          • Eric Cheung

            They didn’t overwrite canon, since ENT, and the Kelvin films reference both the NX-01 and the XV-330. They simply say that this is an additional ship to the Starfleet vessels.

            And the decision came from Paramount, because they wanted something that stuck closer to the Starfleet design. So Berman carried out that order, and Drexler did what he was hired to do by Berman. They are both less to blame than Paramount for not using this design.

            Whether the decision is good or bad, YMMV on that, but it’s not inexplicable.

          • Eskay

            No, not at all. There was no NX-01 in the prime universe based clearly on Canon established in the motion picture, as I’ve already posted. Their trying to clean that up in an enterprise episode by showing the XV/330 is like the same thing they did with that silly Klingon viruses nonsense; this just continues to show what a failure of a series that was.

            The series enterprise is a separate Star Trek timeline

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I like your idea of explaining Enterprise as a separate timeline, like the Kelvin timeline.

            That makes sense, and I think can put some closure on this discussion.

          • Nowhereman10

            You can’t because the NX-01 and the XCV-330 are shown to coexist and Eric’s argument is logical and sound because he showed rightly that none of the displays are consistent with what they do or do not show and are by no means complete about ships named “Enteprise”.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            “You can’t because the NX-01 and the XCV-330 are shown to coexist”

            Before the series Enterprise, give me just one canon example in other Trek shows that preceded it that shows either the NX-01 starship, or a single line of dialogue that references the ship?

            One example?

            I CHALLENGE YOU TO PRODUCE ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE?

            (I have provided a canon scene photo that shows the XV-330 existed and I also provide a canon dialogue line from Cmr Decker which clearly state that they “these are the previous ships named Enterprise” where his is looking the drawings, and NX-01 is not included)

            Where’s your evidence to back up this bold claim?

          • DC Forever

            He won’t be able to provide one. And, I hate to say this, but he’s lying by making that statement.

          • Nowhereman10

            Prove to me that all these ships named Enterprise don’t exist in the the Trek universes because they are also not on the wall:

            http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/

            But you are liar by your statements because you both know that ships were deleted from one in the other and thus you cannot go alone by the display.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Again, where is you similar one instance of the NX-01 being shown anywhere in canon in Star Trek before 2001.

            Can’t you provide just one instance? Just one???

          • Nowhereman10

            http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/

            How many those ships aren’t also on the walls? Oh yeah, most of them. I guess they don’t exist!

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I gotta give you credit for persisting man. You have ZERO data points, but you still believe.

            God Bless you dude! Hugs all around! LOL

          • Nowhereman10

            Prove to me that those ships that didn’t make the list don’t exist in the Trek universes. But bless you for being a stubborn old git.

          • DC Forever

            Queue up the Benny Hill theme song to illustrate you running around with your pants off trying to come up with something that gets you out of this mess where you simply can’t show that the NX01 was ever canon before Enterprise.

            Lol

          • Nowhereman10

            Interesting how you changed your argument while trying to strawman other people’s. Go back and reread it all. Then come back.

          • DC Forever

            ,,Another list without the NX01. LOL

          • Nowhereman10

            But also one without the XCV-330, any sailing ship, any of the two aircraft carriers….LOL

          • DC Forever

            Another list without the NX01. LOL…

          • Nowhereman10

            Again, prove to me that all the ships that never made it onto any of the model displays exist in canon.

          • Nowhereman10

            http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/

            All those ships were named “Enterprise”. Prove to me that they don’t exist because they didn’t make it on the wall displays, either.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I presented a scene of four ships named Enterprise in canon that includes the XV-330.

            Where is you similar one instance of the NX-01 being shown anywhere in canon in Star Trek before 2001.

            Can’t you provide just one instance? Just one???

          • Nowhereman10

            Show me that the ship cannot exist because it wasn’t on the displays when the precedence is set that the displays are not complete lists and one deletes ships from the other:

            http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            By that logic, I could get out of any argument I have for the remainder of my life as a response to people asking me why I have 0 data points.

            You should go into politics, man!

            PS: Maybe, because we “don’t see it,” there is another Enterprise we haven’t discovered yet that is crewed by the Easter Bunny? LOL

          • Nowhereman10

            LOL! You should go into because when someone points out that the list is obviously incomplete. The evidence is in lists like these:

            http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_United_States_Navy_named_Enterprise

            Many of those ships didn’t make the displays, either. So by your “logic”, they don’t exist! You should be a religious fundamentalist, even!

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Nice try! LOL

          • Nowhereman10

            You are proof that things don’t progress except one funeral at a time.

          • DC Forever

            More lists without the NX01. LOL

          • Nowhereman10

            Again, prove to me that all those ships that didn’t make the displays exist. LOL.

          • DC Forever

            ,Another list without the NX01. LOL

          • Nowhereman10

            Prove to me that the ships that did make the diplays exit in the in the canon.

          • DC Forever

            Another list without the NX01. LOL,

          • Thomas Ackerman

            Point of order. Decker never says that. He just says “All those vessels were called Enterprise.”

            He also never says those were the only vessels called Enterprise.

          • DC Forever

            Eric never showed where in canon before 2001 that the NX01 was ever shown or referenced. He has no leg to stand on, sorry.

          • Thomas Ackerman

            But wouldn’t that mean that everything from TMP onwards is also a separate timeline now because there is no way to explain the ridge headed Klingons when compared to the human ones in the Original Trek?

          • TIG1701

            Its always amazing how its Star Trek fans that can’t expand their minds just a little bit on some of this stuff. If you have to be this anal over 50 year old stories then I think you can just tell yourself that ugly ship came before the NX-01 and call it a day. But lets argue about it for 20 more posts because that will solve everything. And yes another good point, its no way UPN would’ve used that ugly ship. They were trying to sell a TV show, it would’ve been laughed out of the concept meeting.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Yet here you are….

          • TIG1701

            Because this loony conversation has taken over this thread. How did this go from talking about the ugly Discovery ship to talking about another ugly ship from a 40 year old movie 90% of people don’t even remember seeing it in? It was in TMP, no one ever thought to put it anywhere else after that for a reason: It sucks.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Now today you are stressing about the ad spammers. Sheesh, relax, dude — some of us like to talk and have arcane discussions on a Star Trek site. If that bothers you, bores you or embarrasses you, just hit the ignore button.

            No offense, but you are coming across like this dude, who wants to ruin our fun…..

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8fd9e73f5eda766f3a588b4946d7936fef78abc8e3f986b4b9f1eed883f1a388.jpg

          • TIG1701

            Point being no one cares about this ship outside of three people discussing it. It never happened for a reason. It was ugly as sin.

          • Eskay

            TIG1701, you seem to have written like at least 10 responses on this topic now yourself? Aren’t you kind of helping to prolong this?

            And yes, you do seem unnecessarily grumpy about it. Just saying.

          • Nowhereman10

            We know that the XCV-330 came before the NX-01 because the picture of it seen in the 602 Club in “First Flight” predates the NX-01 by nearly 10 years. So the ship is at least that much earlier than the NX-01.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            LOL — that was and Enterprise episode — duh!

            Thanks for providing my point — they did a canon re-write to explain it away and back up their NX-01 canon schism.

          • Nowhereman10

            It was a picture on a wall just like the wall pictures on the Enterprise in TMP. There is no canon violation except in your head because those displays are incomplete:

            http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/

          • DC Forever

            .Another list without the NX01. LOL

          • DC Forever

            That’s cheating. They violated canon, realized their mistake, and then tried this “duct tape” solution to cover up their canon laziness.

          • TIG1701

            No offense but that looks like crap.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            It looks glorious!!!

          • TIG1701

            Crappy glorious.

          • Eric Cheung

            I will say that I do like the XV-330 design, but I understand and agree with why it wasn’t used for the show that was made. Personally, I would have preferred a show about space boomers, civilians, on a mission similar to Eneterprise’s. It would have been an excuse to use the XV-330, and it would have deflected some of the criticism the show got early on of the crew’s incompetence. It would have made the encounters with the Andorians, Tellarites, and Klingons a bit more dangerous, and could have been a show about how humans matured to the point of having some diplomatic, exploratory, and military mastery.

          • Tom

            Awesome reminder from TMP. Oracle do you recall why they didn’t go with something closer than the XV-330? They violated canon!!

          • Eskay

            Tom, you are correct.

            Berman violated canon, and this forces us to conclude that the Enterprise series takes place in an alternate timeline.

            There are four Trek timelines: Prime, Kelvin, Mirror and Enterprise

          • TIG1701

            You guys need help. This is why you newbies run from Star Trek with nerdy discussions like this.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Tom, I think was sheer hubris. They didn’t care enough to respect the canon history outlined by Roddenberry and Sternbach.

            Look at the way Berman and company allowed Kirk to be killed off in Generations! That still makes me angry every time I think about it!

          • Eric Cheung

            I doubt Roddenberry gave much thought to the ringed ship. They just needed a graphic to fill the wall in the rec room and he approved that design. I’m sure he figured they’d probably never visit that era of Star Trek history.

          • Eskay

            But in that scene, Decker states that “these are the previous ships named Enterprise.” And obviously the NX-01 is not shown in that display. This is canon! There was no NX-01.

            Rick Berman violated canon by adding another previous Enterprise to the timeline, when GR had already established the predecessor Enterprise in canon.

            So I consider the Enterprise series to be in an alternate timeline, like the Kelvin timeline. The Enterprise series cannot exist in the prime timeline!

          • Eric Cheung

            That display also doesn’t show Richard Branson’s VSS Enterprise. Just because a ship isn’t in the display doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. IIRC, the 1701-D display had some real-world bas relief Enterprises, but didn’t include the XV-330 either.

          • Eskay

            So you would seriously help me believe that on a Federation starship we have abcommemorative section to show previous Enterprises, that they forgot to leave out the famous NX-01 starship, also a Federation ship???

            That’s just silly! This is an Ocaam’s Razor situation – The simplest explanation Is that Rick Bergman decided to grossly violate canon and force in a new change to GR’s timeline.

            And the Richard Branson thing is a strawman. That’s a private sector ship. There are probably hundreds of private vessels on the ocean today that are name enterprise. So what?

          • Eric Cheung

            Why did the 1701-D not include the XV-330? How could they forget such a historic ship? How could Gene Roddenberry violate Gene Roddenberry’s holy timeline?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I’m not sure what you are talking about? Are you saying that somewhere on the D was an exhibit similar to the TMP Enterprises that showed past Enterprises, and the XV-330 was left off?

            If so, please identify this scene in canon — I don’t believe this exists, but feel free to back up with your statement by showing and actual screenshot from TGN like I did to back my my canon point?

          • Thomas Elkins

            I believe he is referring to it’s absence from the observation lounge.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/14a6c9fb172a6d78e812a02d9d61b12d1cc1ec3b678662c0f8ddc3af277aaa95.jpg

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Yea, the famous wood reliefs of the 1701 lineage — I love that!

            This shows the evolution of the 1701 Enterprises, starting with the original 1701.

            It’s funny that Eric would use this to back up his claim – makes no sense?

          • Thomas Elkins

            Well TNG was obviously made a few years after TMP, so he’s basically saying that if the XCV-330 was cemented into canon by Gene Roddenberry in TMP then why was it absent from this wall when Gene Roddenberry made TNG? It must not be that cemented if it wasn’t worthy of being added here. Personally I really liked the NX-01 and and the XCV-330 made a cameo at least twice on Enterprise so even they acknowledged it’s place in canon. I think this explanation from one of the Ships of the Line calendars was a good one.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7baff88e918446ba7aa8c9276802016e1a311d8bd44fdd8904a963ce6a7695f0.jpg

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Again, the wood relief presented all of the ships in the 1701 lineage — 1701, A, B, C, and D. It is not intended to show Enterprises throughout history back to the space shuttle.

            Apples and Oranges.

            PS: Let’s say we throw Eric a bone though and pretend to ignore this — then where is the NX-01 on this relief? See the problem — ANOTHER canon presentation on-screen where the NX-01 is left off. The problem thus gets even worse — now we have on-screen canon in TMP and TNG both that don’t show the NX-01 as ever existing as an Enterprise!

          • Thomas Elkins

            I wasn’t aware that Aircraft Carrier was a 1701 😉 The NX-01 doesn’t appear because it was created years after TNG. It’s not really a canon violation because it’s not there, just an unfortunate side effect of each show being made at different times in the real world. The Enterprise B and C on that wall also look different from the finalized B and C seen in canon, but again those were made after that wall was shown so we can just ignore it.

          • TIG1701

            Star Trek fans. Some of them talk like this stuff really happened. 😉

            Yes I like your idea on how to solve this: Stick to common sense.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Yea, but at least the B and C were shown on the wood relief, as was the XV-330 in TMP.

            THE NX-1 WAS NEVER REFERENCED IN CANON BEFORE ENTERPRISE!

          • Thomas Elkins

            Yeah, but to be fair the early days of Starfleet were never really explored before Enterprise. Other than being a picture of a ship named Enterprise, Decker never said if it was a Starfleet or Federation vessel. All we know is it was a ship named Enterprise. By the time of that film there had been two famous Enterprise Aircraft Carriers, CV-6 and CVN-65 and yet only one is included there. Does that mean that one of them doesn’t exist in Star Trek canon? No of course not. They also haven’t shown the newest Enterprise CVN-80, but it hasn’t been built yet in the real world so we obviously give Star Trek a pass. CVN-80 will probably get a shoutout in a future Star Trek, like Discovery of something, but it’s lack of inclusion in TMP or TNG doesn’t mean it never existed.

            The same ultimately applies to the NX-01.

          • Kang the Unbalanced

            Because it did not exist in their history. The timeline changed at First Contact, or through another of countless timeline shenanigans. Enterprise is in the same timeline as the USS Kelvin. Search your feelings, you know this to be true.

          • TIG1701

            I hated the NX-01 for a long time but it finally grew on me. And it looks like Star Trek. That NCV thing doesn’t. No one would’ve watched.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            No one did watch…almost

          • TIG1701

            Even less would’ve watched if that ship was in it. I would give it two season tops.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I don’t find it compelling that your subjective “hey trust me” claim that an original, bold design, even one you don’t personally like, would have made things worse?

            But hey, for those that like incrementalism and industrial mediocrity, the NX-01 delivers!

          • TIG1701

            Have you looked at it? It looks bland and boring. Yeah I could be wrong but I certainly wouldn’t have tuned in. And I doubt anyone at UPN would’ve felt differently. It doesn’t look like a Starfleet ship. Discovery is getting all kinds of hell from fans but it still looks 10 times better than that thing. I could only imagine the responses that thing would’ve gotten.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You just described how I feel about the NX-01.

            Different onions! Nothing wrong with that.

            I think though that regardless of whether you like the XV-330 or not, the bland NX-01 to me is a metaphor for the lost opportunity of the entire Enterprise series. The whole series was bland, and not the lead in to TOS that we all expected.

          • TIG1701

            I didn’t love the NX-01 either but c’mon? The NV thing looks like something out of The Martian, not Star Trek. But it came from The Motionless Picture so it makes sense. But it was a two second shot, I don’t think anyone ever thought to make an entire show around it. If that was the case it would’ve been the ship on TOS instead of the original Enterprise.

            I don’t disagree about Enterprise not being a great lead in to TOS. I don’t think Discovery will be either unfortunately and why prequels suck.

          • Kang the Unbalanced

            The design was one of Matt Jeffries’ early concepts for the Enterprise.

          • TIG1701

            Thank god it was rejected.

          • Kang the Unbalanced

            Indeed.

          • Thomas Elkins

            I loved Enterprise, but I can understand why some people didn’t like it. They were shooting for Starfleet’s version of “The Right Stuff”. Even though Captain Kirk was our first glimpse of a Starfleet officer, he worked for a Starfleet that was already 100 years old and a well established agency. With Enterprise they wanted to go back to the very beginning and show us the early days of Starfleet, like looking back at the early Astronauts and Cosmonauts of the old space race. It was a really interesting idea on paper and I certainly enjoyed it.

            My only complaint about Enterprise was the Temporal Cold War. I like the idea in theory and enjoyed the TCW in STO, but it didn’t work for me in Enterprise. They were forced to shoehorn in so many future references to the Federation and whatnot that it kinda ruined the whole space race vibe they were going for. It prevented the show from standing on it’s own and tried to shove the destiny of the eventual formation of the Federation down your throat instead of just letting it happen naturally. Archer should never have been told about the future, but they did and we can’t change that now I guess.

            That’s why Season 4 is the best of the series, IMO. They dropped the Temporal aspect of it and focused on adventures taking place in the now. I loved seeing the Andorians and Vulcans nearly go to war and humans helping establish peace between the two. My dad always wondered why Earth was the Federation capital and not Vulcan or some other planet, but Enterprise kind of establishes that Earth was a neutral power that helped establish peace in the region, which is why it and not Vulcan or Andoria are the capital. I like that a lot so I will forever enjoy Enterprise.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Oh, what’s this…an even uglier ring-design spaceship from a science fiction movie. No one would watch this — people would leave the theater. Wait, what’s that noise…was that over 2/3 of a billion dollars in box office I just heard being run up for this ugly spaceship movie? 😉

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/31e6e934d05431019bb379cea75a0aa78077f2fd18d5eb0d9999bdb62b021053.jpg

          • TIG1701

            That ship isn’t fighting the Klingons or the Borg man. Way to miss the point. Interstellar was (supposedly) a hard science film. Star Trek is more a fantasy science action adventure show where everything is sleek and cool and Captains get their shirt ripped off. The ship is a big identity of these shows and very much a character itself ust as the actors on the show. No one went to watch Intestellar to watch the ship shoot photon missiles or cared about itst bridge design. No one can tell you a single thing about this ship either, because the movie isn’t about the ship. Its simply there as a function to the story, nothing more.. On Star Trek, its 50% of the show. Apples and oranges.

            You would lose Trekkies in a heartbeat with these ship designs. But obviously hard science type of dramas they work because they are more closer to realism of modern day outer space. There is very little about Star Trek you would call ‘realism’.

          • Eskay

            Speak for yourself, TIG1701, but I like both the interstellar endurance ship and the XV-330. They both look like ships that could actually travel in deep space.

            The NX-01 is an unexciting ship designed by a committee that was running out of ideas.

          • Kang the Unbalanced

            The ring ship has always been described as a starliner. All of the ships in this display are military vessels. Although, they did leave out the sailing vessel.

          • Nowhereman10

            No, no it does not show the evolution of the 1701 Enterprises. That is lie. Why? It has the aircraft carrier CV-65 Enterprise starting on the very bottom of the bas relief just under the Constitution-class Enterprise.

            See, you’ve been trying to hate on ST: Enterprise so much that you are ignoring the counter evidence that it does exist, even retroactively. It can still exist in the canon because none of the displays you have cited show a complete history of ships named Enterprise, be they government or civilian and given the E-D’s display shows mostly Federation starships by that name, it isn’t surprising that the XCV-330 and the NX-01 aren’t there, since neither of them were Federation starships or spaceships. Also the TMP display does not have the CVN-65 Enterprise, but does have CV-5, the WW2-era Enterprise. Eric is absolutely correct about the deletion of ships from one display to another.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            The ships that appeared in the two canon, commemorative display sections on the 1701 and 1701-D are:

            USS Enterprise (sailing ship)
            CV-65 Carrier
            Space Shuttle
            XV-330
            1701
            1701 refit (or A)
            E-B
            E-C
            E-D

            The NX-01, which is suppose to be Starfleet’s historical great first Enterprise, with the famous Captain Archer who later made Admiral, IS NOT ON IT?

            This is canon. There is no debate on this. The NX-01, supposedly Starfleet’s own first great Enterprise, was never included. This is a FACT — there is no dancing around this.

          • Nowhereman10

            But you still keep dancing around the fact that the two separate displays include some few ships in one, but omits them then in the other:

            TMP Refit 1701 display:

            USS Enterprise (sailing ship)

            CV-6 Carrier

            Space Shuttle

            XV-330

            1701

            TNG-era E-D display:

            CVN-65

            1701

            1701 refit (or A)

            E-B

            E-C

            E-D

            The second one clearly omits the sailing ship, CV-6, XCV-330, and OV-101 Space Shuttle orbiter Enterprise and, excluding the Enterprises A, B, C, and D, adds the CVN-65. I guess the other ships weren’t so important as they once were by your “logic” and the CVN-65 became a great ship by Starfleet’s standards. .

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Regardless of which list we use, the NX-01 is never shown…you can’t get around that.

            Keep making lists and keep posting, but you will never be able to come up with a representation of the NX-01 in a canon scene before 2001…fact!

          • Nowhereman10

            You dodging the fact that one display deletes the ships in one and adds another that wasnt in the first, thus the use of a ship in one or both does not invalidate the existence of a ship named “Enterprise” and that unfortunately for you includes the NX-01:

            http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Again, 0 = NOT IN CANON.

          • Nowhereman10

            Again not being is a display that does not include a ship does not disprove a ship’s existence. I see you just dodging the ship list. Your concession is excepted.

          • DC Forever

            Another list without the NX01.. LOL

          • Thomas Elkins

            Sure you can because TMP was in 1978, TNG was in 1987 and ENT was in 2001. That’s the fact you can’t get around. You’ll also never be able to find a scene depicting the CVN-80 because she won’t be comissioned until 2025-2027. That’s just a fact of life, but CVN-80 would still have existed.

          • DC Forever

            I remember the explanation years ago from either Okuda or Drexler, that they threw in the aircraft carrier on that woodcarving to give a sense of scale and size, but that that carving is primarily intended to show the 1701 series of starships.

          • Nowhereman10

            Please note that in the E-E display by the time of Nemesis, the CVN-65 is gone it is all Federation starships named Enterprise.

          • DC Forever

            Ah, another Starfleet Starship display I forget about without the NX01 shown. Lol

          • Nowhereman10

            That deletes the another non-Federation ship. I guess the CVN-65 doesn’t exist anymore. LOL

          • Eric Cheung

            https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-sprint-us&biw=412&bih=538&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=2pGNWfeaO8PnmAGWu7rICQ&q=1701-D+observation+lounge+display&oq=1701-D+observation+lounge+display&gs_l=mobile-gws-img.3…12319.30567.0.31118.58.43.1.0.0.0.472.4983.18j22j1j0j1.42.0….0…1.1j4.64.mobile-gws-img..26.10.1705…0j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i30k1j0i5i30k1j30i10k1.jLHLtOJZiVs#imgrc=YuGyqSVQTLS4rM:

            This shows the aircraft carrier, but not the XV-330

          • Eskay

            Eric,

            Can you please point out to me where the NX-01 is on this wood sculpture?

          • Nowhereman10

            Eric’s point has been made and you guys keep whistling past the graveyard. The displays are not complete histories of ships of any sort being named “Enterprise” and in the first one CV-6 is there but not CVN-65. XCV-330 is there, but not NX-01 and OV-101 is there. However in the E-D display, CVN-65 is there and five Federation starship Enterprises, but not XCV-330, CV-6, nor OV-101.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            ” but not NX-01″

            Thank you! Eric wouldn’t answer the question, so I appreciate the response.

            So therefore, there have been two commemorative sections on the two of the most famous starships in Trek history, the 1701 and the 1701-D, and NEITHER OF THOSE INCLUDED THE NX-01 in the presentation.

            To summarize, the ships that appeared in these commemorative display sections on the 1701 and 1701-D are:

            USS Enterprise (sailing ship)
            CV-65 Carrier
            Space Shuttle
            XV-330
            1701
            1701 refit
            E-B
            E-C
            E-D

            So there is your definitive prime universe, canon-defined Enterprise history of starship lineage….and the NX-01, which is suppose to be Starfleet’s historical great first Enterprise, with the famous Captain Archer who later made Admiral IS NOT ON IT?

            Clear evidence that Enterprise, must be considered as a separate timeline.

            If they wanted to have it in the prime timeline, all they had to do was use the XV-330, which was already established as the first Starfleet warp capable Enterprise, but then instead attempted to re-write canon. So be it, but in doing so they created the “Enterprise Timeline,” which now joins the Kelvin Timeline and the Mirror Timeline as alternate Star Trek universes.

          • DC Forever

            Exactly. There was no NX01 in the Prime Timeline.

          • Nowhereman10

            It is a part of the Prime and Kelvin timelines. You cannot get around this.

            You can lie to yourself and others all you like, but it does not change that.

          • DC Forever

            Ah, little man crying “liar” again because he can’t produce even one canon scene or lust showing the NX01 before 2001.

            Rather pathetic.

          • Nowhereman10

            I don’t know. You seem pretty pathetic with being unable to answer my question or to do anything other than strawman.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Yea, as I said above just now, the XV-330 appeared in 50% of the ships’ in Star Trek where we saw historical Enterprise representations, while the NX-01 appeared in 0% of historical Enterprise representations on those ships. Last time I checked, 0 is ZERO and 50% COUNTS! LOL

            Who in the hell argues that 50% is equivalent to 0% ? Makes no sense ???

          • Nowhereman10

            XCV-330 only appeared once and was, along with others, deleted from the second.

            But strawmanning seems to be prominent for you as an “argument”.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            NX-01 appeared ZERO times.

            0% is your data point — good luck as you continue to try to spin ZERO into something meaningful in canon.

          • Nowhereman10

            The evidence presented that you cannot get around is that one display deletes ships that the other had. Given that many other craft were named “Enterprise” that were never included, even though historically important, it does not mean they never existed.

            That fact exists.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            You can keep posting all night here, but a proliferation of posts from you will not change the math. 0 is ZERO = NEVER. No getting around that, my friend.

            (well, I suppose you could try quantum mathematics to try to turn a zero into something real? lol)

          • Nowhereman10

            As can you keep posting. But the proof is already there. The lack of some does not mean it doesn’t exist. Or does this list of ships named Enterprise keep galling at you:

            http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/

          • DC Forever

            Another list without the NX01 LOL

          • DC Forever

            0 is 0.

          • Nowhereman10

            You keep dodging the point. Why?

          • Nowhereman10

            Again, you keep whistling past that the display of the TNG-era utterly dropped (in the canon) the other vessels in the TMP Enterprise’s display. Thus, from in an in-universe standpoint, that a ship is included or not is not proof any more of that ship never having existed.

            And believe me, there were a lot of military as well as civilian craft by that name:

            http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/index.html#1705

            Why aren’t any those equally important ships included?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Keep posting, but you will never be able to come up with a representation of the NX-01 in a canon scene before 2001…fact!

            However, I can produce a canon scene that establishes the XV-330 Enterprise…fact!

            These are non-debatable facts. 0% is your data point — good luck as you continue to try to spin ZERO into something meaningful in canon.

          • Nowhereman10

            The evidence presented that you cannot get around is that one display deletes ships that the other had and therefore the use in a display or not does not invalidate a ship’s existence.

            These are non-debatable facts.

          • DC Forever

            Another list without the NX01. LOL.

          • Nowhereman10

            So answer my question. Do any ships on the list that don’t ever make any of the displays have non-canon status?

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Eric, I’d like to echo Eskay’s question to you — can you please point out to us where the NX-01 is on this wood sculpture?

          • Eric Cheung

            That’s my point though. If it’s not a problem that the XV-330 isn’t there, why should it be a problem that the NX-01 isn’t there?

          • DC Forever

            Ah, but there are two presentations of previous ships, one on the 1701, and one on the D, and the NX01 is not on eirther of them!

            That’s the point you are conveniently ignoring. Those other ships, including the X -330, by appearing in either or both of those actual scenes, get to be called canon. The NX01 appears in neither, so there is absolutely no case for it to be considered in Trek canon prior to 2001. And that is a fact that is not open to debate.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            “That’s the point you are conveniently ignoring. Those other ships, including the X -330, by appearing in either or both of those actual scenes, get to be called canon. The NX01 appears in neither, so there is absolutely no case for it to be considered in Trek canon prior to 2001. And that is a fact that is not open to debate.”

            Yes! The XV-330 appeared in 50% of the ships’ in Star Trek where we saw historical Enterprise representations, while the NX-01 appeared in 0% of historical Enterprise representations. Last time I checked, 0 is ZERO and 50% COUNTS! LOL

            Who in the hell argues that 50% = 0% ? Makes no sense ???

          • Nowhereman10

            That illogical for both of you. But not surprising you don’t want to acknowledge the fact that ONE DISPLAY DELETED FROM IT MOST OF THE SHIPS THAT WERE ON THE OTHER WHILE ADDING A SHIP THAT WAS NOT IN THE FIRST ONE!

            The idea that a ship was not in either of them does not mean it existed. Otherwise all of these ships do not exist by your illogical thinking:

            http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/index.html#1705

          • DC Forever

            Another list without the NX01. LOL

          • Eric Cheung

            They can do whatever they like, and there are ways to explain it in-universe, if necessary. Maybe the 1701 refit display concentrated on non-Starfleet ship (except for the pre-refit 1701). Maybe the 1701-D display decided to exclude non-Federation starships, which would exclude both the NX-01 and the XV-330.

            My point is just that they were never ever going to build an entire show around a ringed ship design, if for no other reason than Paramount and NBC/UPN/CBS would never approve a main ship design without nacelles. The Defiant and Voyager are probably as radical as they’ll ever want to get. It’s the same reason they want to use the delta in the uniforms. They need enough iconography to make the show recognizably Star Trek. That means the producers have to pick their battles, and so do the fans.

            The NX-01 already wasn’t a Federation ship, and they didn’t have the delta, and it wasn’t even called Star Trek for more than two seasons. So, they called the ship Enterprise to make it recognizably Trek, and they gave the ship nacelles. Look, Doug Drexler couldn’t even convince them to go for a sphere main hull, like the Daedelaus. If he couldn’t even get that, how could he possibly convince them to use the XV-330 design?

            Would it have been cool to have a ship revolve around the XV-330? Yeah. But it’s a battle that would never be won, and probably won’t be, in the foreseeable future.

          • DC Forever

            You are right in that sense that Berman and company would not have had the balls to create a bold historic design for the NX01. His team were “incrementalists”.

            However, if Gene R had been around, he would have laughed Drexler out of his office with that NX01 design, and would have brought back in Andy P to create a bold design in the sense that the refit and D were both great, bold designs. And my bet would be that Gene would have told Andy to start the design effort with the XV-330 as the starting point.

            And the final ship would have called Enterprise XV-330; Gene R would have respectful of canon, even if the final design didn’t quite look like the original TMP painting.

          • Eric Cheung

            One thing I try never to do is to speak for the dead like I know what they’d want. I don’t think I’d even know what I’d want ten years after my death, especially considering how radically different TNG was to TOS.

            I also think that he was far less concerned with Canon than fans were. He was mostly concerned with using Trek as a way to tell the allegories he wanted to tell. And he was hardly infallible, considering his casual relationship with the truth, women, and his fast-and-loose schemes to make money. But he wanted Trek to outlive him, and figured others would do things differently and better than him. I think he was at peace with the fact that it would look radically different in other hands…generations after he died.

            He had a great broad vision of the future, but he was just a human, for all the best and worst that meant. People can can be very frightened of change, but Roddenberry wasn’t.

          • Kang the Unbalanced

            By then there were too many Enterprises for the damn wall.

          • Eric Cheung

            Exactly!!

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Well said. TMP clearly showed the type of starship design that the Enterprise was suppose to go by for a predecessor series.

            Instead, with no regard to Roddenberry and Sternbach’s carefully laid out starship history canon, they invented and incrementally boring TNG predecessor type of ship, and shit-canned canon simply because they could!

          • Thomas Elkins

            Not that I want to start an argument or anything, lol, but I do find it interesting that you’ll defend the heck out of Discovery when people cry about canon violation, but here you are now criticizing Enterprise’s supposed canon violation over a decade ago.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I can appreciate that. 🙂

          • TIG1701

            It was a two second shot. You people over think stuff like this. I’m guessing Roddenberry never intended any Trek projects to be a prequel to even see these kinds of ships. I guess the one thing I can say nice about Roddenberry if he was around there wouldn’t even be stuff like Enterprise and Discovery in the first place and more forward thinking stories like TNG was.

          • Nowhereman10

            I doubt that. People always think they know what Roddenberry would or would not have done, but the reality is that often Roddenberry was just in it for the money. Hence Lincoln Enterprises. So, if there was money to be made, he’d probably be right up there wanting the shows to be made.

          • DC Forever

            Jesus, what a clueless thing to say. Read up on your Star Trek history, son.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Yea, nothing could be further from the truth. He was a visionary, and I met him through the pro-space movement, which he was a big supporter of. He was a true intellectual — a big picture guy.

            Now, he was very protective of his brand, and did believe that the studios ripped him off…like nearly everyone else in Hollywood! 🙂

            Perhaps his one weakness was liking ladies not his wife.

          • Nowhereman10

            I met Roddenberry, too. Ironically he even signed a copy of the Star Fleet Technical Manual along with William Shatner. He was not a god as you try to make him out to be. He was flawed and was known to be a philander. And don’t get Harlan Ellison started on about Roddenberry, either.

          • Nowhereman10

            I lived that history, kid. Get over it. Roddenberry wasn’t a god, just a man. He dumped his first wife for Majel Barrett and he even wound up having an affair with Nichelle Nichols:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_life_of_Gene_Roddenberry#Nichelle_Nichols_and_Majel_Barrett

            He did some good things, but in the end he was fallible.

          • Nowhereman10

            Sternbach did not design any canon starship history. The Spaceflight Chronology was never canon in any way shape or form.

            Roddenberry ironically saw to that himself and it is because of that that he and Franz Joseph had a falling out and the Starfleet Technical Manual designs being declared non-canon and Roddenberry making up the “rule of two” for warp engine design (which rightfully got ignored, especially after he was gone).

          • DC Forever

            The guidebooks are not canon, but they do try to represent what is shown on screen, and add some fun extrapolation and details conjecture.

            And obviously, there is zero information or drawings in those 70’s and 80’s reference manuals on any ship resembling the NX01. That’s because it never existed in the canon of ship lineage that Gene R and others clearly established.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            There is NOTHING on the NX-01 before Drexler and Berman forced it into canon.

          • Nowhereman10

            But it is canon and it now exists, even if by production real world. The “argument” that it doesn’t exist because of very obviously incomplete displays about ships named Enterprise do not contradict that.

          • DC Forever

            It exists now in the alternate “NX-01 Timeline”

          • Nowhereman10

            No linage was truly established, just conjecture and if Roddenberry was alive today, he’d probably be happy to sign off on the newest ships.

          • DC Forever

            No, for Enterprise, Gene R would have brought Andy P back to create a bold design that, if not aligned with the XV-330, would have been truly exciting and cool, like the re-fit and the D.

            No way he ever would have signed off on that lame looking NX01.

          • Nowhereman10

            How do you know that he would have brought Andrew Probert back?

            How do you know he wouldn’t have signed off on the NX-01 or something similar?

          • Kang the Unbalanced

            They did however pick and choose for this display. The ringed ship has always been described as a starliner, not an explorer or military vessel; however it is included, presumably as the first warp-capable ship to bear the name. Perhaps they had some reason for not including it in the display– such as the ship not existing in the timeline at this point. Kang originally thought the NX -01 was perhaps a classified design, for whatever reason, but by the end of the series it was the most famous ship in the fleet.

          • Nowhereman10

            Who described the XCV-330 as a starliner? Some non-canon book? We have no idea what the ship’s role was and may have just been an experimental platform.

          • Kang the Unbalanced

            Actually, it was Gene, picking those pictures to be displayed in the rec room.

          • Nowhereman10

            Proof? That does not mean the XCV-330 is a starliner. We still have no information its role in spaceflight as far as the Trek universe(s) are concerned.

          • DC Forever

            Completely agree. They over-reached big-time by creating the NX01. Gene R would not have allowed that.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I had the pleasure in the late 70’s of spending some time with Gene Roddenberry. He was a true visionary. And I am confident he would have went with his own canon for Enterprise and put Archer and crew aboard the XV-330.

            Now, it’s possible, even likely, that Roddenberry would have overseen some tweaks that TMP movie picture of the XV-330, but he would have kept that canon-defined basic configuration intact.

            Roddenberry was all about being bid and bold. Hence, under his direction, you got the awesomely elegant re-fit design and the big and bold Galaxy Class. Roddenberry would laughed Drexler out of his office if he tried to peddle that lackluster incrementalist design for the NX-01 to him.

          • Thomas Ackerman

            Point of order, the NX-01 was decommissioned right before the founding of the Federation.

          • Spyros Spyrou

            Richard Branson’s ship isn’t a military or “official/government-contracted” ship. It was made by private investors/contractors. All the ships you see in that picture were either military vessels, or government-contract builds. NASA is not a military firm, but it’s not private-sector, either.

          • Eric Cheung

            It was, however, a first, especially as a private-sector ship. But my point was that there will be plenty of ships called Enterprise, between now and then, that could credibly claim a place on that display, but wouldn’t make it, due to the discretion of the designer of the ship, and in the real-world because they didn’t exist in reality or in imagination by 1979. I know that the ships that are actually in there are all government ships, save for the mysterious XV-330, but there’s no confirmation that’s the reason those Enterprises were chosen. I assume the XV-330 would basically be a either a private-sector, or combined space agency ship, probably similar to the IXS Enterprise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IXS_Enterprise

            But ultimately it doesn’t really matter.

          • DC Forever

            Yep!

          • Kang the Unbalanced

            Enterprise is in an alternate timeline, which likely split off from the incursion in First Contact, and does lead to the Kelvin timeline. However, this is a moot point, because the Trek timeline is as hopelessly buggered as Transformers, and we might as well give up and call it a hodge-podge multiverse. Infinite stupidity in infinite combinations.

          • Nowhereman10

            Um no. We have no way to know whether or not that is completely true. We know that the Prime and Kelvin timelines are nearly identical up and until 2033 and then the split and major differences start developing rapidly from there.

          • DC Forever

            The insertion of the NX01 was a huge violation of canon; therefore we need to accept it’s a different timeline to preserve the Prime Timeline canon.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Well said. Berman/Drexler created a schism in canon that requires us to accept that the Enterprise series occurs in an alternate timeline.

          • DC Forever

            Yes, it’s an alternate timeline. I think using the term “NX01 Timeline” is a better label than “Enterprise Timeline,” since the insertion of the NX01 was the point where this new timeline diverged from the Prime Timeline.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            “NX01 Timeline”

            I like it!

          • TIG1701

            Pretty much this.

          • Thomas Elkins

            According to Memory Alpha the XCV-330 was an old piece of concept art Matt Jefferies made for the 1701. He discarded it, but Gene Roddenberry requested it be used in that display in TMP.

          • TIG1701

            That was suppose to be the 1701? That thing makes Discovery look pretty.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Exactly…Gene fracking Roddenberry wanted it shown in the movie as the official predecessor Enterprise in history. THANKS!

            I hadn’t heard this tidbit — thanks for this confirmation that Roddenberry himself specifically wanted that ship to be shown as the predecessor Enterprise starship.

            An excellent example of how canon “gets made”

          • Nowhereman10

            You are both wrong. The origin for the XCV-330 is not for Star Trek: Phase II, but for another proposed TV series that did not reach production:

            “Gene Roddenberry’s imagination brings you “Starship”. The vessel of the future as only he could picture it. This could be the forerunner of a new TV series, a Starship operated by an enormous computer which is a lifeform itself. Each Human on board is a genius, a highly trained science specialist, part of a team of Galactic trouble shooters. A brand-new concept in future space travel. We also have three different views of the Metatransit system, side elevations of the systems analysis unit, and the Metaflier section of the Starship. Imagine yourself on a mission in space aboard this luxury cruiser. You’ll be spellbound!”

            – From the Lincoln Enterprise catalog

          • DC Forever

            No. That’s the Andromeda, which was the basis for that series years ago that Kevin Sorbo starred in.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Yep, and from the intelligent ship to the crew of experts trying to rebuild the Commonwealth — that was Andromeda. Nowhereman10 had a brain-fart on this one…LOL

            And it has not relationship whatsoever to the XV-330. In fact, look at this picture of the Andromeda — it looks nothing like the X-330, and was made from a bio-tech ultra-futuristic process if I recall correctly:

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/92c773999d1a501bea33cfb13f27289810488b0f192ef08e06a2a6114c5f6173.jpg

          • Nowhereman10

            You again keep lying. But I’m not surprised:

            http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(XCV_330)

            Please read the background part of the article. Andromeda has nothing to do with it. Moron.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Lincoln Enterprises (not exactly a source I would rely on) is simply wrong, clown. Matt Jeffries designed this in the Phase II effort, and he called it a Declaration Class Starship, and it was part of Star Trek. And it also appeared in the Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology publication in 1980. Here’s the original sketch by Jeffries, BTW.

            And while I enjoy our discussions here, you are way to free with your throwing out the “you’re a liar” insult all the time, just because people correct you. Andromeda was indeed the living ship with experts sent out in space — based on Roddenberry’s concept. You are simply mixing things up here.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/11854e42273e99a7c9993061de2e7622ce528fa921ef0ea43577185aa9f38f1a.jpg

          • Nowhereman10

            Ha! Reading this is just pure gold! You think Roddenberry was this great god icon, but then you lambaste the very company he created along with Bjo Trimble in 1967!

            You are a senile old git!

            Andromeda was really just the aborted TV series Genesis II …In Space! Even the name Dylan Hunt was reused again! At best elements of “Starship” were mashed together with the Genesis II concept to make Andromeda.

            Those drawings also appear in the Lincoln Enterprises catalog, too.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            “You are a senile old git!”

            I guess I need to update my Universal Translator with the 1970’s British slang upgrade.

          • Nowhereman10

            Ah, concession accepted again, old fool.

          • Eskay

            There has always been a lot of fun fan conjecture in Lincoln’s product descriptions. Those are like the tec manuals fun info and are thus not canon. Take what you read in there with a grain of salt.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            BTW, FROM MAJEL HERSELF:

            “We stole parts of Starship deliberately for Andromeda. We stole names, we stole titles. They were all Gene’s, so it didn’t matter. We’ll be doing that probably until my deathbed. If something works with a particular story, let’s use it here, and save this other element for another place.”

            WHOOPS !!!

            Who is “the liar” now !!!

          • Nowhereman10

            Parts. At best. Very generic elements mashed together with. the aborted Genesis II storyline:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_II_(film)

            There is little in the “Starship” beyond the team of troubleshooters on an A.I. controlled ship.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle
          • DC Forever

            No. No. No. You lie.

            90% Starship at least. Only the character name and having him wake up in at the beginning of Ep 1 are from GII.

          • Nowhereman10

            No, the entire premise is Genesis II. You’ve got it in reverse.

            – The main character’s name (Dylan Hunt)
            – Both Dylans are the group leaders
            – Both of the heroes “wake up” after centuries to find the world they knew is destroyed by a great conflict and then they proceed, with help from others, to restore civilization by reuniting the remnants. PAX in Genesis and Templar are examples of allies seeking to help restore civilization.
            – The Tyranians are essentially the Nietzscheans.

            Starship is only a partial use, at best.

            – Both Andromeda Acendent and Starship have A.I.s that can be considered lifeforms.
            – Team of troubleshooters. Comparable some to the
            Eureka Maru crew.

            – Big critical difference: The Starship crew is from a utopian Earth and their mission is largely peaceful exploration and to help others in need. It’s a Star Trek reboot using a much smaller crew, not Genesis II.

          • Eskay

            Starship has very little in common with Genesis 2.

            Andromeda is the reincarnation of Starship.

            I should know as my brother worked on Andromeda.

          • Nowhereman10

            It is not a reincarnation of Starship. Andromeda is a clear reboot of the Genesis II concept. Just compare the premises side-by-side and you will see that Andromeda is Genesis II … IN SPACE! At best Andromeda reuses the concept of a ship with an A.I. and a crew of troubleshooters.

          • DC Forever

            Yes, and Sorbo said similar way back then as well.

            Genesis II is an earth-based post-apocalypse tale – no Starship, no intelligent ship, no star travel???

            What is this moron talking about – he’s confused and just wrong. It wouldn’t be so bad if he wasn’t such a jerk about it.

          • Nowhereman10

            A link please to that interview?

          • Thomas Ackerman

            Yeah, I’d love to see that article, too.

          • Eskay

            Conversations with yourself are just so f’g lame. You are not fooling me.

          • Thomas Ackerman

            I’m sorry you’re that cynical to believe that.

            But let’s say that’s true. How does that invalidate any points made so far? How is my request unreasonable?

          • Eskay

            Thanks for pretty much admitting that you are sock-puppeting.

            And I tell you how it’s relevant – I don’t trust a word you’re saying anymore, as you’ve shown you will do anything to “win” in an online discussion!

            It’s PATHETIC, LOSER behavior, Tommy-Nowhere.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            “A link please to that interview?”

            Here you go:

            http://www.littlereview.com/getcritical/trektalk/majel3.htm

            And the interview is even called, “From Starship to Andromeda”. You whole basis here, which you called me a liar on, is now shown to be completely false.

            You are obviously stunned that I was able to provide this, I am sure. You called me a liar on this — I will now wait for your apology?

            I also see that you have been a busy little bee here the last couple of days. Your fake ID was exposed, and now in your blow-back you accuse me and others of also doing that?

            So if you want to continue to converse with me here, you will both need to apologize to me and stop bringing in this fake-ass Tom Ackerman creation of yours to back you up.

            Otherwise, you will not hear from me again — I do not feel trolls.

          • Nowhereman10

            Here’s the rest of that part of the interview, however and this is what was what you should’ve done in the first place instead of just tossing a quote randomly and somewhat out of context without citation out there :

            “There is no story to tell you yet, not on Starship. I could go into what we had before, but it’s not going to be the same, it’s not even going to be similar as a matter of fact. The original idea was about a bunch of scientists, but that was when they were people — they’re no longer people! We always end up with a captain and a crew, there will be in this case. But remember this: we only have one or two humanoids in it. We’ve got a bug for a lead! I really can’t tell you a Starship plot summary because that particular part of it is changing daily. The last time I went to a meeting, Stan said, this is not really going to work with what we have in mind for over here, so the story hasn’t been turned in yet.”

            As you can see, they changed everything quite drastically.

            Also, Starship was being developed at the time by Stan Lee Mediaand here is the 1999 press release:

            “A futuristic action hour in which a peaceful Earth is run by an organization of artists, scientists and teachers working to bring harmony throughout the universe, “Gene Roddenberry’s Starship” chronicles the exploration space vessel Starship that serves as home to a team of Galactic trouble-shooters led by Captain Dylan Hunt. After leaving Earth to study the far reaches of the universe, where a long and brutal territorial war between aliens takes place, Hunt and his crew discover worlds that are vastly different from the humanistic and civilized society they left behind. ”

            The link to the full artcle on TrekToday: https://www.trektoday.com/news/180900_04.shtml

            This is very, very different from Andromeda, even after the addition by Stan Lee Media of an interstellar conflict.

            And here is the link to the Lincoln Enterprises catalog in a Trekplace article that has a great in-depth look at the ship and the series premise as well as whether the ship originated as a discarded Enterprise design for TOS or only was created in the 1970s for the Starship TV show:

            http://trekplace.com/article13.html

            Again, the Starship premise is very different with the exception of Starship having an A,I. lifeform and the small troubleshooter crew. It is clear that the Genesis II premise is the bigger part of the overall story for Andromeda which is a post-apocalypse story… in space. Dylan Hunt is trying to piece back together civilization both the Genesis II Hunt and his Andromeda counterpart. How is that not correct?

            Anyway, there is a passage in Star Trek Creator: The Authorized Biography of Gene Roddenberry where this is clearly stated. I’ll see if I can dig it up and get back to you on the citation.

            You took out of context what other people said while changing your own argument on the fly. That’s dishonesty and if you really want one, I’m willing to give it for the Majel quote, but I think you owe myself, Eric and others in turn for your strawman attacks on their arguments. Otherwise, I don’t care if you block me or whatever.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Of course they changed stuff – it was a 40 year old story-line. And yea, they borrowed a couple things, including the main character’s name.

            But I produced a quote from the Andromeda series creator herself, Majel Roddenberry I challenge you to produce a quote from Majel herself, the Andromeda series creator, that is as cut and dry of the quote I produced that showed Andromeda is largely based on Staship. If you can produce a sourced quote from Majel saying that, then I will meet you half-way on this, provided you withdraw you strong accusation that I lied? You seem to have that habit on jumping on people who disagree with you by calling them a liar. Obviously, I have been able to show you that I had some decent info her to back up my position on Andromeda, so calling me a liar was uncalled for.

            And who said I was going to block you? I never block people. WTF? (If I were you, I would call you a liar for saying that, but I don’t do that).

          • Nowhereman10

            The quote I’m looking for is in Star Trek Creator, as I’ve already mentioned. If it’s not available online to cut and paste from, I’ll do the old fashioned thing and hand type it all in from my own copy. Also, remember that most of the grunt work on Andromeda was not from Majel it was Robert Hewitt Wolfe (executive producer), which why after left following the 2nd season, everything in the series went to crap. In fact, this piece of the interview with Hewitt confirms that the premise is more along Genesis II/Strange New World/Planet Earth than Starship:

            “Crescent Blues:
            Exactly what is Dylan Hunt trying to do?

            Robert Hewitt Wolfe:
            [Dylan Hunt] is trying to rebuild an intergalactic civilization by getting
            worlds to join. He’s like a door-to-door salesman for civilization.”

            The closest that Wolfe comes to mentioning Starship in the interview is this bit:

            “Robert Hewitt Wolfe:
            I was a writer for five years on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. They wanted someone with Star Trek experience to help develop this material. They committed to develop two different projects based on Gene’s old material, one of which they were going to fast-track based
            on which one Kevin Sorbo wanted to star in.

            I was working on the one based on a starship. That was the one [Kevin] was attracted to. That’s
            how we got fast-tracked.”

            Interesting pre-series stuff in that interview that makes me wish that Wolfe had been able to stay on and guide the show. You can find the rest here: http://www.crescentblues.com/3_5issue/andromeda.shtml

            Actually, I may have found something nearly as good in this old Wayback Machine archived article:

            SPACE.com: So you collaborated with Robert Hewitt Wolfe? What was that like?

            MBR: I just gave him all the stuff that I had here from a bunch of [different projects],
            some that were pieces of Andromeda and Starship, *but beyond that the stories that were actually used in [Roddenberry�s failed series pilots] Planet Earth and Genesis [for specific episode outlines].*

            [But we have to update the science in the stories because] everything has changed so
            much, you realize that in the 30 years since these things were written, a lot has changed. Some of it will be recognizable, some will not be recognizable. We�re certainly not hanging on to the science in the stories. We�re so far advanced beyond that. And we can just go through and pick up some of the stories that he had and apply them to [the new shows]. The stories are the important part because they promote the advancement of the people.”

            So, yeah, here she’s backed away from the Starship-only premise of the one interview and is saying it is a combination of parts of both, essentially and when combined with the Wolfe interview, it’s not hard to see where it goes from there as far as which one got used more than the other to make Andromeda.

            Interesting stuff in this interview where she again references doing a more “pure” Starship adaptation with Stan Lee:

            https://web.archive.org/web/20051001035957/http://www.space.com/sciencefiction/tv/majel_interview_001101.html

            Anyway, as I’ve said and shown repeatedly in several posts that compare/contrast, Andromeda is more Genesis II…. In Space! than Starship. The restoration of civilization is what is the driver for the series, the main motivation for Dylan Hunt and his ragtag crew just as it was in the Genesis II premise. The danger of what you did is to rely too much on one interview and see if there weren’t others.

            And by the way, you strawman attacked me again there. I specifically qualified it as “or whatever”. Please don’t do that again.
            And yes, people who put out statements without any citation or other references but expect other people to believe them just ’cause are fit to be called a liar. I’ve been good enough to do so on my part and so should other people.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            So you are not able to produce then a single sourced quote from Majel saying that Geneis II was the basis for Andromeda? You type a shitload there, but not of it was a direct quote from the Andromeda creator herself like I provided.

            I provided a simple straightforward quote from Majel herself that pretty much nailed this:

            ““We stole parts of Starship deliberately for Andromeda. We stole names, we stole titles. They were all Gene’s, so it didn’t matter. We’ll be doing that probably until my deathbed. If something works with a particular story, let’s use it here, and save this other element for another place.”

            Get back to me when you can find a quote from the series creator herself that backs your position. She is the fracking series creator and the person who started developing the concept based on Gene’s Starship notes. That’s a hell of a lot more credible than Robert Hewitt Wolfe — you do realize that dude was 6 years old when Roddenberry came up with Starship in 1970, and then 9 years old when Genesis II came out, right?…LOL…seriously???

            “And by the way, you strawman attacked me again there. I specifically qualified it as “or whatever”. Please don’t do that again. And yes, people who put out statements without any citation or other references but expect other people to believe them just ’cause are fit to be called a liar. I’ve been good enough to do so on my part and so should other people.”

            That’s the worst apology I have ever heard. But, what the hell, I accept it. Thanks.

          • Nowhereman10

            Okay, any apology I retract. After providing a quote from the guy who actually wrote for, exec-Produced and made everything happen in Andromeda for the first two seasons who did know what was going on and you just blow it off with infantile and arrogant crap to the effect of attacking the guy rather than actually address that without Robert Hewitt Wolfe, Majel would’ve sat on her butt and not gotten anything done by herself. The interviews are plain and straight-foward: She handed everything over to him to do. What the heck do you NOT understand about that!?

            And I even provided a quote where Majel herself even backed off on the other interview with a different take:

            “but beyond that the stories that were actually used in [Roddenberry’s
            failed series pilots] Planet Earth and Genesis [for specific episode
            outlines].”
            – Majel Barrett Roddenberry herself

            Here she admits it was. I even mentioned Star Trek Creator, Gene Roddenberry’s biography which I was going through to find the quote that also clearly states Genesis II is the basis more than Starship was. It was going to likely take a couple of days, and you took at least that long to finally cite where the Majel quote came from.

            You are as dishonest as they come and I’ll even reassert now that you, Eskay, and DC Forever are likely all sock puppets for the same person.

            You have lied about how much Andromeda was based on it on a single isolated quote that is contradicted by the show’s co-creator (denigrating him without cause) and Majel herself (which you ignored in favor of the other) and despite overwhelming comparisons side-by-side I carefully laid out that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Genesis II is the main meat of Andromeda’s premise and story narrative. And you have ignored people who worked on the show directly. You have strawman argued what I have said in order to win.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Blah, blah, blah, blah. I don’t find your emotional tantrums compelling, and all of your personal attacks and false accusations are just so lame, dude.

            I give you the last word here — go ahead and have another hissy fit, troll.

          • Nowhereman10

            “Robert Hewitt Wolfe was under 10 years old at the times of Starship and
            Genesis II, so it’s total hogwash to say he would know more about the
            relationship of Starship to Andromeda than Gene’s own wife, who was
            living with Gene during those concept development/pilot years — are you
            serious??? These aren’t strawmans — these are facts backed up by
            common sense!”

            Oh come off it that makes no sense whatsoever. You are committing the act of attacking a source because Wolfe is not verfying what you want to hear and so you attack him over it. Majel turned over the frackin’ notes to Wolfe those are the facts and you cannot get around it. Furthermore, I note that once again not only do you not face the facts that Wolfe in one interview says that Genesis II is the story basis for Andromeda, but you also once again are dodging the other quote by Majel Barrett Roddenberry HERSELF that contradicts your one quote from another interview.

            See, I don’t mind a good debate, but you have from the beginning of the thread attacked and misrepresented what people have said with regards to the NX-01/XCV-330 issue and now you are being dishonest and dodging the counter evidence provided that has two separate people confirming the Genesis II basis rather than Starship for Andromeda.

            So quit with the lame-ass dodging and just admit that I have a point and met your own requirements; a quote not only from Majel but the exec-producer of Andromeda Robert Hewitt Wolfe as well. You have one quote versus two.

            Deal with it. Admit you were wrong.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            I would be willing to respond positively to you on your request, provided that you admit that you jumped the gun in calling me a liar for saying that their was no relation to Starship when Majel clearly commented that it was a significant influence?

            You started this debate out really negatively and in a personal attack method by calling me a liar. I was not lying. So if I have over-reached on some of my responses, well, you started that, my friend. I don’t react well when people falsely attack me publicly by labeling me a “liar” — who does?

          • Nowhereman10
          • DC Forever

            You continue to illustrate your lack on knowledge here. Andromeda was primarily based on Gene R’s Starship concept. I remember Sorbo and Barrett saying exactly that in an interview.

            Have you actually watched Andromeda and Genesis II? I have both on DVD. And other than borrowing a character name and having Hunt wake up from cryosleep in Ep 1, everything else is based on Gene R’s Starship.

            Hey Einstein, do your home next time before coming at me with your infantile personal attacks. Half-wit.

          • Nowhereman10

            Can you post a link, please to this interview? I put your buddy’s alleged quote through Google and found nothing.

            I have watched both. Read my later response. It is Genesis II, not Starship, except some bare bits, at best. Again, see my side-by-side comparison.

          • Eskay

            So this “Thomas Ackerman” is a new Disqus iD which was just created today, and all of his posts just happen to be on this article, and they are all agreeing with/backing you up?

            Creating a second ID to back yourself up is such a lame, trolling tactic.

            From my POV, you just lost all credibility here.

          • Nowhereman10

            Or a lurker that decided to comment. Also, since you’re accusing me of this, why don’t you prove that DC Sock Puppet, I mean DC Forever and Oracle of Science Fiction aren’t one and the same since they all just go around reinforcing one another.

            Also, while you’re at it. Prove you, Oracle, and DC aren’t the same person. And don’t use the tired old canard of “But we’ve been here for years!” because that doesn’t mean a thing one way or the other.

            See how easy it is throw around accusations?

          • Thomas Ackerman

            Yes, I am a lurker who decided to comment because the way some people have decided to present this issue as “I know what Gene Roddenberry would’ve wanted best” is lame (how could they know such a thing?) and the whole “You aren’t a true fan if you don’t believe as I do” attitude that’s being tossed around and thus the bullying of Eric and Nowhereman by them to try and force them into line with infantile nonsense rather than actually acknowledge they have a solid argument as to why, regardless of the real world reasons, the NX-01 Enterprise doesn’t have to be on the walls of the refit Enterprise or the Enterprise D for it to have still existed the Prime Timeline.

            Also, notice that Science Fiction Oracle and DC Forever use almost the same exact attack answers to people: “LOL! A list without the NX-01. LOL!” over and over again. I’m guessing they are indeed sock puppets while Eskay here is Voice of Reason sock puppet from the same individual.

          • Nowhereman10

            Very good points. I didn’t see it before, but now I do. You’re absolutely right, Thomas. I was just joking about the sock puppet thing to poke back at Eskay, but yeah, DC Puppet and Oracle of Sock Puppet really do have nearly the exact same usage of language and personality when they break down into their tirades against people who disagree with them.

            And here’s another little thing ponder; what happens if at some point in the future a Star Trek producer decides to go back and pull a George Lucas and CGI artwork of the NX-01 onto the wall displays in TMP as part of an update?

          • Eskay

            Ha, ha, ha! You “both” coincidentally now post at the same time today. Give me a break!

            Hey Tommy-Nowhere, Your trolling is so inept that you are embarrassing competent trolls everywhere.

          • Nowhereman10

            Funny, Eskie, how you never once claimed the same thing even when DC Puppet and Oracle of Puppets were “tag-teaming” Eric and then me. So, why won’t you say anything about that , Eskie? You three the same troll?

          • Eskay

            No, funny is someone who is accused of something, and then “goes Trump” on others in response.

            Bye-bye troll. I’m using the bloccking feature on you starting right now now.

          • Nowhereman10

            Suck it up, buttercup. I kinda figured you and your other two sock puppets were special snowflakes.

          • Eskay

            So the best defense is a good offense, eh?

            “Tommy’s” Discus account was created yesterday right as you posted here, and first series of posts were all to agree with you or back you up.

            You are not fooling me, Tommy-Nowhere.

          • Thomas Ackerman

            I too have watched both, and I’d say your assessment is way off given how much more close it is to Genesis 2 in story than to Starship’s stated premise as quoted from the Lincoln catalog that Nowhereman provided.

            The only thing the Andromeda has in common with Starship is they are both ships that have AIs and small crews. The ship Andromeda is a warship, Starship is not. Andromeda and Dylan Hunt are out to restore civilization from the remnants of the old that were destroyed after a great war (See Dylan Hunt’s mission with Pax in Genesis 2). Starship as pointed out is from a utopian Earth.

          • Kang the Unbalanced

            Hmm. What is that in the far right picture, just behind Decker’s head? Is that not Jeffries’ design for the television series? Clearly someone considered that version of the ship to be more than “best they could do on a television budget”.

          • Spyros Spyrou

            It can’t piss anyone off if it’s not true. Like it or not, the TOS ship IS the true Enterprise in her original form. The TMP refit is just that – a refit. That fact is stated explicitly in the film. So, no, it won’t piss me off as someone wedded to canon, because your statement is factually false, and thus, can’t be taken as canon anyway. The TOS version of the ship itself even underwent minor refits/changes from her original inception and launch. Pike’s version had minor differences, as did Kirk’s. If you really want to establish a starting benchmark, use what the ship looked like when either April or Pike had her.

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            Interpret it however you like — I am not backing down from my common sense statement.

          • FightingMongooses

            1701 Refit is a gorgeous design. One of my favorite things to ever come out of Star Trek!

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    • Tom Cruise Never Phones It IN

      Nothing in this show looks before Kirk. That’s why it is another timeline, yes?Like a third separate timeline from TOS and JarJar Trek is what I’ve heard.

  • SpaceCadet

    Has it been mentioned anywhere if Constitution Class starships will be featured on Discovery? I mean, they should already be in service, right?

    • Darkthunder

      The USS Enterprise was launched in 2245 (so about 10 years before Discovery).

      • The Science Fiction Oracle

        How do you know the Discovery launch date? The series takes place 10 years before the TOS, but we don’t know yet if Discovery is brand new?

        • Darkthunder

          I didn’t say anything about Discovery’s launch date. Read again?

          Discovery (the series) takes place 10 years before Kirk and Spock, which means around 2255 (TOS was 2265-2269).

          The USS Enterprise (Constitution Class), which SpaceCadet was inquiring about, was launched in 2245 (10 years before Discovery, the SERIES).

          • The Science Fiction Oracle

            No problem — I thought you meant the ship given this article is about the ships.

      • SpaceCadet

        Which is what I figured based on “The Cage”. So I do hope we see that class of ship on the new series even if it does look a bit retro next to to more modern looking ships like the Discovery or the Shenzhou.

  • Fiery Little One

    This clears up a few details about the physical arrangement of the Shenzhou for me.

  • D Bruniany

    Who cares if it’s not *exactly* canon. What if the US Navy commissions a new Enterprise aircraft carrier in the next few decades or another space shuttle with the same name?

    Also, you know what else doesn’t really fit into Star Trek? Khan. He supposedly caused a huge war in the 1990’s; one that neither I nor any of my friends or family can seem to remember.

    Star Trek was a show made in the 1960’s with the technology available and what people imagined the future what look like at that time. You can’t expect anything that’s a prequel to look like it was made in the 1950’s or 1960’s. It’s 2017 now.

    Just relax and give the show a freaking chance!

  • Dean Jones

    I really want these, but the increased size (and them not matching my 100 other models) massively puts me off.

  • Silvermain

    Definitely gonna have to get the Discovery and the Shenzou