The newest episode of Star Trek: Discovery — “Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum” — has just debuted, and we’re sure you’re ready to dive into a discussion on all the events that just took place.

Here’s your place to take on all the new Trek lore this episode brought us, with no restrictions on spoilers. If you haven’t yet watched the episode, that’s your last warning!

This thread will remain open until our episode review is posted, later this week.

Discovery:
Desperate Hours



Discovery:
Drastic Measures


  • Snap

    A good episode this week and one which poses a question of whether Stamets is becoming something of a Jekyl and Hyde-type of character. Or, is interfacing with the spore drive having effects similar to drug addiction? Stamets was practically euphoric after he first interfaced with the spores and now the effect has worn off.

    We also now have on screen evidence which really calls into question whether Tyler is Voq in disguise: he was in sickbay with his vitals being displayed on the monitor above him. It has also be confirmed that the tribble is once again present in Lorca’s office and it would be logical to assume that he has had private meetings with his chief of security.

    What is up with L’Rell and who, exactly, is she playing? Cornwell or Kol? Given she is from a house of “deceivers” I would not be surprised if she is playing both for her own purposes.

    • prometheus59650

      I think it’s more that Stamets is losing connection to “when” he is. As the drive he is effectively everywhere at once. But he seems to be a part of time beyond him as well. He called Tilly “Captain” and meant it.

      We are no doubt also seeing the beginning of why this drive is abandoned.

      • Locutus

        I hadn’t really thought of the Tilly aspiring to be Captain thing. Thatbmakes it a little more interesting.

        • iMike

          It’s previously discussed in episode 1.06 “Lethe.” When Tilly and Burnham are jogging through the ship, discussing entrance into the command training program. This is the same conversation where Burnham mentions the Constitution class vessel, Enterprise.

      • TUP

        Thats exactly what I thought too, that Stamets had observed a future where Tilly was a Captain.

  • dsr_nyc

    A good episode with some good moments and genuine tension, but no real answers and I couldn’t help feeling like this was a shuffling of the chess pieces to prepare for next week’s fall finale.

  • Harry M.

    I really enjoyed this episode. I was surprised by the turn in Saru’s character – but I can see how that can happen with the war going on for the past 9 months and especially seeing the deaths of many people in Starfleet. The opportunity to have peacefulness can make you greedy in that sense. I wonder if any kind of punishment will come to him because of what happened.

    On the flipside, I appreciate how the people on the planet can think they’re helping. Unfortunately, they’re not Organians.

    I’m looking forward to “part 2” of this story in the fall finale!

  • My husband said, “This episode was pretty cheesy … but at least it was Star Trek-flavored cheese.” 🙂

    • GIBBS v2

      Thats funny cause my wife said the same thing. She is the non-trek fan that is simply along for the ride. She thought it was “dumb”. The irony is I am reading everywhere how very “Trek” the episode was.

      We saw hints of it but I still think Saru is bad ass in hiding. Super speed, super strength. I know he has got to be hiding claws in those weird fingers of his.

      I am so pleased with this show so far, love it!

      • mr joyce

        if hes the prey, imagine what the predator species of his planet would be like.. would be cool to see

        • GIBBS v2

          I’ve had those same thoughts, they gotta be seriously scary. In typical evolutionary fashion the prey always has to be just a little faster or pricklier than the predator or you get wiped out.

          I am wondering do they still exist? Did they evolve into there own advanced race?

          • mr joyce

            didnt saru say in one episode that his species was bred for the purpose of being hunted? i guess the predators were the ones who bred his species using some advanced tech. thats the way i interpreted it, i am of course, happy to be proven wrong though, whenever we get confirmation – either way – on the show. the predators must be ‘really’ clever, or ‘really’ dead

      • Yeah, my husband is the non-Trek fan who’s just keeping me company. I twisted his arm to watch all 79 episodes of the original series, so he does have some idea of what’s Trek and what isn’t, though it doesn’t mean to him what it does to me.

        I found myself wondering how Saru had made it as far as Commander if all he really wanted was not to be afraid. Starfleet seems like a strange choice of occupation for someone with that desire; I really, really want to hear more of his backstory!

        • Mo

          Perhaps Saru’s people, having joined the Federation, decided they needed representation in its organizations… despite their natural defaults.

          Saru is Tosk 2.0. Cracked magazine calls him the greatest Trek character, ever. And despite having been “raised” by Spock, I’m not entirely inclined to disagree.

          • He’s certainly a memorable character, for someone we’ve seen so little of.

            I’m definitely NOT ready to say he’s a greater character than Spock, though. I don’t know if I’d be able to say that ever, and I certainly wouldn’t say it this soon. Patience! Let the season unfold! The magazines want to make early pronouncements in order to garner readers, but we fans can take our time and evaluate things carefully. 🙂

            Saru IS intriguing, though, and I would definitely like to know more about him.

          • Mo

            I’ll likely never depose Leonard Nimoy’s work from its important place in my adolescence. But I can certainly see what that Cracked writer’s hoping for. Saru is the latest Trek Other who gets to comment on the rest of us as candidly as he needs to. No Trek is complete without one, and Saru is making me very happy with that duty.

            Cracked writer begins his piece with the assertion that we all greatly need to see how the Federation’s utopian paragons in TOS and TNG actually got that way. Sort of “you’ve got to go through hell before you get to heaven.” On that, I’m in total agreement.

          • GIBBS v2

            HA! I just watched that episode of DS9, great reference.

            I am Tosk. I am Tosk. I am Tosk…. Lol.

          • Mo

            Just don’t call him “Groot.”

  • Forest Elephant

    This episode was a mess. What exactly was going on with the Klingon interrogation situation? Was she really intending to take the admiral and defect (possibly a plot to infiltrate Starfleet if Tyler is really a Klingon)? Did she only kill the admiral to deflect suspicion of why she had the prisoner out of the cell? Why were all of her allies on her escape ship dead? If she knew that Kol had them killed then why did she go back and submit herself to him knowing that he knew she was betraying him?

    • Dwight Williams

      L’Rell is a spy. I assume she’s playing multiple games here.

      • GIBBS v2

        The more layers the better, this is what a modern Trek needs.

    • iMike

      We saw Tyler’s vitals in sickbay at the end of the episode. Given the Discovery’s advanced technology I think the medical instruments would have picked up his alien DNA if the Tyler/Voq theory was correct.

      • Snap

        Indeed. McCoy was able to blow Arne Darvin’s cover with a medical tricorder, a fully equipped sickbay would be more than enough to uncover anything in Tyler.

        • 31dot

          Maybe they did a better job with “Tyler” than with Darvin.

          • Dwight Williams

            Possible. mo’qay tuq could have more thorough genetic tricks to play with.

    • prometheus59650

      I’m betting Cornwell isn’t dead.

      • SpaceCadet

        She’s not dead. She was the human that L’Rell told Kol had escaped.

        • Victorinox

          I’m pretty sure Kol was referring to the prior “escape”, i.e. the one he saw when he bumped into her in the hallway.

    • TUP

      People really have to accept that this isnt Voyager. Its serizlied story telling. Its not a weakness of the plot of writing that you dont understand whats happening because the story isnt over yet.

      You wouldnt stop an episode of TNG half way threw and declare that the plot makes no sense because you know it will be resolved by the end.

      • Forest Elephant

        Te weakness is that the writer’s want us to understand things that are unintentionally murky and confusing.

        • TUP

          Thats not true. Im not confused at all. Most people arent confused. You feel confused because they havent given you the answer yet and you want the answer.

          If this was Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead you wouldnt feel confused because you expect them to have plot developments that create questions that end the episode(s) without answers.

          • Forest Elephant

            Please stop telling me how I should be reacting to Discovery. If you like it, great. I don’t like it. Many other people don’t like it.

            The plotting is sloppy and weak.

          • TUP

            Only people like you who dont like it get their panties knotted and insist on trying to convince everyone else that they shouldn’t like it either.

            You tried to say it was confusing. Im telling you it isnt. if you’re confused thats not the writers part because it is not confusing.

          • Forest Elephant

            I am opining about how poorly written and constructed the show is. Others obviously agree and others disagree, which is why tis board is here.

            You are being an obnoxious creep and obviously not interested in having a discussion about the merits of Discovery, only insulting those you disagree with.

          • TUP

            So…you’re whining about how YOU think its a fact the show is poorly written and constructed (which is obviously not true) but you’re accusing ME of not wanting to have a discussion? You insulted me,…

            Why are you so bent out of shape because so many of us are not confused and you are? This board is great for discuss and many examples of many of us missing something or speculating and it leads to better understanding.

            Clearly you dont want a better understanding. You want to commiserate with like minded people who just want to complain about a show that you dont understand. And thats fine but dont get on me because YOU dont get it.

          • mr joyce

            hes lying, he does understand it, hes just arguing for arguments sake, i hope im wrong though. these boards do seem to be very ‘pro-discovery’, i am pro discovery, but i do like to see opposite ideas to mine too if it is made up of well put together arguments, otherwise if we just all agreed, that would be boring.. this guy, forest elephant, he just seems to me to not be interested in listening to any other ideas apart from his own badly put together ‘ideas’

          • Forest Elephant

            I am not arguing for argument sake or lying. Tup is starting arguments and hurling insults and now you are too.

          • mr joyce

            no not really on my part, and i didnt want it to come across that way, so i’ll put my hands up for that one, but i cant speak for the other guy.

            all i can say is that you mentioned one thing in your original reply to TUP, then only one post later you are totally rejecting what what he said, based on not wanting to hear something different to what you already decided – that it is confusing because you dont get answers to questions you have in one episode. you even added to this point by saying that the show is poorly written because of this. you then said that you dont like the show, which is not a problem, but just say that instead of trying to say all these other points that dont add up. just because you dont like the show, does not mean that it is poorly written. you can dislike something, but you can still acknowledge that it is well done.

          • TUP

            Hey pal, if you dont want anyone having a counter point to your view, dont post here. Its that simple. Its a discussion forum which means people will post replies. if you cant handle that, go away.

            No one is insulting you. Stop whining.

          • Forest Elephant

            Why are you still being a jerk about this? We were starting to have a productive discussion. Expressing an opinion is not “whining”.

          • Forest Elephant

            You have been reported for making personal attacks.

          • TUP

            That’s cool. You should wait til someone makes a personal attack before reporting them though. Did you also report yourself for actually making a personal insult?

            Talk about sensitive. You’re the one saying how the writing sucks. If you can’t handle people explaining why they’re not confused don’t post. If you want intelligent discussion then take part don’t just complain and insult people.

          • Forest Elephant

            If you really are interested in having a discussion, then please help me unpack what was going on at the end of the episode. L’Rell goes to her escape ship and finds the crew dead. She clearly knows now that Kol knows she is betraying him. Instead of escaping she goes to Kol and pretends to submit to him. He plays along, knowing that she betrayed him, and then has his lackeys prepare to kill her.

            Why did she go back to him knowing that he would kill her? Why did he let her get close to him, knowing that she had already lied to him and prepared to betray him – he foiled her escape plan and killed her crew!
            What am I missing here? This seems like disjointed sloppy plotting with character behavior that makes absolutely no sense.

          • TUP

            My point was that just because you don’t know now doesn’t mean it’s poor writing

            Because it’s serialized they are purposely being evasive about things. We might get the answer next episode or the episode after

            One reasonable explanation would be that L’rell suspected that Kol was on to her so if she ran he’d simply destroy her ship. She tried a different approach.

            Perhaps her and Cornwell made a plan. Cornwell could be unconscious as part of that plan or faking. L’rell distracts Kol whole Cornwell escapes in the ship or prepares to. Maybe L’rell gets beamed off. I don’t know. It wasn’t a self contained episode so it’s okay that we don’t know

          • Victorinox

            “She clearly knows now that Kol knows she is betraying him”

            This is simply not true. All she knows is that her pals were unable to offer Kol anything useful for him. She did, at the beginning of the show, and thus was allowed to remain alive.

            “Why did she go back to him knowing that he would kill her?”

            Again, as far as everybody knew, she wouldn’t be killed as long as she was useful for Kol.

    • Mo

      L’Rell is playing a long game. Like Mudd, she’s probably lying to everyone, including Voq.

      • TUP

        Yup, there was clearly seeds planted for potential outcomes. You get it. I get it. Most of us get it.

    • Victorinox

      “Was she really intending to take the admiral and defect (possibly a plot to infiltrate Starfleet if Tyler is really a Klingon)?”

      We don’t know. That’s the point. She is a spy. Maybe, maybe not. To me, it is unlikely she is defecting, she is just trying to trigger another stage of her/Vog’s plan.

      “Did she only kill the admiral to deflect suspicion of why she had the prisoner out of the cell? ”

      The Admiral is clearly not dead. They put up a fake fight to try to fool Kol. It worked, he thinks Cornwell is dead. And apparently so do you. There would be no way for Lrell to defect without Cornwell alive.

      “Why were all of her allies on her escape ship dead?”

      Kol saw nothing worth from them, and promptly got rid of them. L’rell was on the verge of the same fate, when she convinced Kol that her skills in interrogation were worth keeping. As far as she knew, she was safe as long as she can convince Kol she is a good interrogator. She was right, Lrell is still alive right?

  • iMike

    Great character moments/development and a great set up for the fall finale …

    Saru is one of the more intriguing characters of this new series. To see such a disciplined, rational person come completely unhinged was thrilling. For a man who has known fear every second of his entire life, and then to know peace and tranquility, even for a little bit, and then being forced to let it go. That was brilliant. Even though he was not himself, I think Saru’s comment to Burnham during their fight shows that she will always be symbol of loss for him despite their truce. The slow burn of the budding relationship between Burnham and Tyler is both hopeful and tragic.

    The other thing I think this episode did really well with the subplot was continue to focus on Stamets’ physical and clearly psychological deterioration. What’s really fun about his initial comments to Tilly after coming out of the spore chamber is that there could be multiple interpretations. He referred to her as “Captain.” Later, he talked about everything feeling familiar yet different. These could be verbal clues about the upcoming mirror universe episode that we know is coming, but the connection with the Tardigrade also means he could exist anywhere in linear time, so that could also be the future. Personally, I would prefer the reference to Tilly as Captain having nothing to do with whatever happens in the mirror universe episode.

    I’m not entirely convinced Cornwell is dead, although I’m not sure she could realistically survive that much electricity coming into contact with her nervous system. If she is dead, at least she died fighting. L’Rell is obviously playing her own game. I don’t think her agenda includes an allegiance to Kol or to the unification of the 24 Houses.

    • SpaceCadet

      Cornwell is not dead. She was the human that L’Rell told Kol had escaped.

      • iMike

        I don’t think that was definitively made clear. We don’t see Cornwell after her “apparent death,” and I took the mention of escape to mean the cell break that L’Rell engineered. You could certainly be correct though.

        • SpaceCadet

          While not definitively made clear, I think the whole point of why L’Rell dragged Cornwell to L’Rell’s ship was so that Cornwell could escape. The whole fight between the two women was staged purely to fool Kol that Cornwell was escaping and had gotten the better of L’Rell.

          • iMike

            Personally I hope your theory is correct. I like Cornwell because she is a a personal foil to Lorca.

      • Aaron

        A copy and paste of my comment below:

        Re-watch the conversation b/w L’Rell and Kol again. L’Rell refers to a human female – it’s pretty obvious that is Admiral Cornwell. However, the escape in question was the initial “escape” from the cell – when Kol caught Cornwell and L’Rell in the hallway and the two started to attack each other. Kol says “you were sloppy” and “she got away from you,” only for L’Rell to respond “not for long.” To me that implies the conversation is about Cornwell escaping, but only for a brief moment before L’Rell “killed” her. I put kill in quotes, because I’m not entirely sure Admiral Cornwell is dead.

        • SpaceCadet

          I think your interpretation of the conversation could very well be right. And I also believe the admiral is still alive because of the emphasis on L’Rell dragging the body to where it ended up.

    • TUP

      I wondered if Stamets was simply delusional about the Captain being there of if he mind-shifted to a different reality or era where Tilly was Captain…. Its been a part of her character that she wants to be a Captain. I thought perhaps Stamets had seem a future where she did just that.

      • Quintillion Tesla

        That’s what I thought – that maybe Stamets was shifting through dimensions and Time and therefore recognised Tilly as the Captain momentarily.

        • TUP

          Maybe in the mirror universe Tilly is Captain. And she’s ultra confident and hyper sexual.

  • Fiery Little One

    This was an interesting one, particularly for Saru.

  • Frank Pepito

    I felt like this episode was the calm before the storm…and with what popped up at the end, I was right. :p This one didn’t flow as well for me at the beginning as previous episodes had. I finally became more interested during the twist in the episode, when Saru crushed their communicators. I enjoyed the resolution fine enough with the away mission, but the Saru arc was definitely a quiet story to the larger action we’re looking forward to next week. Saru…what a tragic and well-drawn character arc we’re seeing of him. And the discussion between him and Tyler about finding calm when you’re distracted with anger, such a relevant topic of discussion for today’s times. That’s very Star Trek! Lorca’s style at the top of the show was very cool. He’s such a cool captain, regardless of the mixed signals we’ve gotten from him earlier in the season. Because this episode had to set up for next week, this one also felt a little like the earlier episodes of the season, that maybe I can only fully enjoy this episode after seeing how it’s resolved, or at least pans out, next week.

  • Chromejob

    Hrm. Are we heading once again to “Errand of Mercy” territory with both powers converging on a planet with ethereal energy beings? :-

  • SpaceCadet

    Why does everyone keep saying the admiral is dead? I guess no one paid attention that she was “the human” L’Rell reported to Kol that escaped and which Kol recognized was part of L’Rell’s deceit.

    I have to say I am myself confused about what agenda L’Rell is serving. While I don’t believe she was being honest to the admiral about defecting, she was basically talking to herself when declaring that she was going to end Kol so I think that much is true.

    • Forest Elephant

      You may have a point about the admiral. What I was genuinely confused about is what L’Rell did after she found her crew dead. It makes no sense that she thought she could bluff her way out of that or that Kol would let her get anywhere near him and pretend to serve him.

      I found the storytelling to be a confusing mess, as most of the Klingon storyline has been – confusing as in very badly and sloppily written and plotted, not as in intriguingly plotted with possible misdirections.

      • SpaceCadet

        I don’t think enough time has been spent on the Klingon characters to really understand them and their motivations which is a deficiency in the writing. The first major character, T’Kuvma, was dispatched early on so essentially he was just to set the plot in motion. The second character, Voq, has been missing in action for awhile now so who knows what’s up with him. The third, Kol, is a straight up baddie, with no shades of grey or nuance to the character. And lastly, L’Rell is from the house of spies and is the interrogator so naturally you can’t believe anything she says and with Voq or no other important Klingon around there’s no sounding board to see her true thoughts unless she talks to herself like she did in this episode. I find it interesting that even though she has interrogated several characters (Tyler, Lorca, and Cornwell) we have barely seen any of it. L’Rell said to Kol that Cornwell revealed the secret of the Discovery to her, and this was after first saying the admiral wouldn’t talk, so why didn’t we witness how that happened and see just how effective L’Rell is supposedly at her job?

        • Forest Elephant

          I think that you have diagnosed what I don’t like about the Klingon storyline. It is supposed to be a primary plot driver, but it has been erratically and sloppily put together.

      • Matthew Burns

        Again. Its first season syndrome setting in for me. The writing will likely get better as the characters and settings become more clear to the writers. That is my feeling anyway.

        • Forest Elephant

          I keep hoping for that too.

    • Aaron

      Re-watch the conversation b/w L’Rell and Kol again. L’Rell refers to a human female – it’s pretty obvious that is Admiral Cornwell. However, the escape in question was the initial “escape” from the cell – when Kol caught Cornwell and L’Rell in the hallway and the two started to attack each other. Kol says “you were sloppy” and “she got away from you,” only for L’Rell to respond “not for long.” To me that implies the conversation is about Cornwell escaping, but only for a brief moment before L’Rell “killed” her. I put kill in quotes, because I’m not entirely sure Admiral Cornwell is dead.

      • TUP

        I think L’Rell meant to make Kol think she killed Cornwell. If she still intended to defect to Discovery, she needs Cornwell. So I think she hid her among the dead to retrieve later.

  • Aaron

    While a lot happened in this episode, it definitely felt like a setup for next week’s fall finale. That’s not a bad thing, just that there wasn’t a lot of resolution to any of the stories, which can be frustrating. Alas, that is very much the nature of the beast when it comes to heavily serialized story telling. There is definitely something to be said about Netflix’s release all at once model – heavily serialized TV show episodes are more like chapters in a book vs a single story with a clear beginning, middle and end. Having to wait a week b/w each chapter can be frustrating – sometimes I want to read the next chapter now – even if that means staying up way too late 😉

    • Matthew Burns

      I will honestly say that this episode is probably my least favourite. It was still a good watch, but I found myself a little bored at times.

      • Aaron

        Agreed. There were a lot of good ideas in it, but the episode spent too much time in moving all the pieces around on the board for next week. While some of the more obvious threads will be addressed in future episodes – such as whatever the hell is going on with Stamets, the relationship b/w Burnham and Tyler, is Cornwell alive or not, etc – I do hope the writers don’t ignore the important things that happened in this episode. Specifically, what will the repercussions, if any, be for Saru. As he stated directly, he wasn’t NOT himself, he was himself without fear – and being unafraid changed him. How will this effect his relationship with Burnham, etc.

  • Eric Cheung

    Wow. That episode had tons of shades of past Trek, while reveling in the ambiguity of all the threads it’s sewn and frayed over the past eight episodes. Nothing seems to be as it seems to be, but how can we know until next week?

    There were energy beings with the conscience of Metrons, Organians, and Prophets, and moments of Eden-like bliss, seen to have a price like so many allegorical tales. The episode delights in making the viewer unsure what happened to Voq, seemingly exploiting the speculation fans have engaged in since his last appearance. There is undoubtedly similar ambiguity regarding a certain admiral POW, as well as Stamets.

    I’m groggy from travel. Perhaps I’ll have more thoughts later. Perhaps I’ll have to wait a week.

  • Liked the episode, maybe there was a bit to much Avatar magic. Here is the new promo for episode 9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=834PO48DjTo

  • Nyssa of Traken

    I am beginning to think the ‘Tyler is really Voq’ theory is deliberate misdirection on the producers’ part. It’s just too obvious and the hints dropped into the dialogue eg ‘You fight like a Klingon’ are too egregious. The reveal won’t be that simple, I hope. Perhaps the Klingons found Janice Lester’s mind-swapping device before she did and have swapped Voq’s consciousness into Tyler’s body? My own theory is that the Klingons have uploaded Voq’s consciousness in a dormant state into Tyler’s brain which is now waiting to be activated by a suitable signal. The ultimate sleeper agent.

    • GIBBS v2

      That is a plausible theory I could get behind. Turning Voq physically into Tyler is just silly, I wouldn’t buy it. And for him to act so very human also holds little water but the way you’ve described it would make sense.

    • Dwight Williams

      When you have katra transferrals and Camus II-type body-switch tech in play, I suppose this is a possibility we need to watch for as well.

      • Nyssa of Traken

        Of course – there has been such an emphasis already on shared consciousness with Sarek and Michael that it might well foreshadow any potential Voq/Tyler reveal. And it would also allow Shazad Latif to continue in the show once that plotline has resolved. Perhaps via a mind-meld with Michael/Sarek?…

    • TUP

      The thing is, Ash lied to Lorca on the prison ship. So there must have been a reason.

    • Aaron

      I’m hoping this is the case too. While I would be OK with Tyler being Voq, it’s too obvious at this point. And the way CBS has handled it – with the obvious misdirect with the IMDB page for actor playing Voq – it seems like CBS may pulling a long con on all of us. Which I would be totally for!

    • TUP

      Maybe A traveler, but not The traveller. But you never know.

    • mr joyce

      sounds interesting.. i cant remember the whole story of the traveller though, so not sure if it would work..

      how is the theory further explained?

    • Joseph

      I actually thought this might be the case 2 episodes ago. He re-engineered his DNA and can be anywhere at once and back again. I do think he probably will become a Traveler.

    • prometheus59650

      No, it is not.

    • Matthew Burns

      Very long stretch to be a viable theory. ….

    • Mo

      Please, no.

  • Mo

    I could’ve used another five to ten minutes of detail about Saru’s transformation, and how it affected him while it was taking place. The secondary plots were important, but this episode needed to be longer to tell a more effective story on the planet.

    Also: major shoutout to the singing blue plants in “The Cage,” no?

  • Trent

    Universal Translator in the communicators That is a great idea! Wonder why they removed them a few years later . https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/120a6d6630d874e2a02e782c0a2ab36398b7e8b2ce42a5baf926332a2c5155e9.jpg

    Someone tell Ash to freking shave!

    • mswood666

      We already know from Enterprise episode #3, that Communicator’s can be tied into the Ship’s Universal Translator, but that it has a lag time. Why Archer wanted Hoshi on her initial away mission.

      I would assume that the device in Metamorphosis was either one that has enough of a database that there is no lag, or that the shuttle was significantly out of range of the ship (or blocked from communication).

      In the nearly 100 years since, I assume either the ship wasn’t that far away when it iuse was attempted, or that the communicator has a limited Universal Translator database, just not as much as the larger device used by Kirk.

      Seems easy enough to me.

  • Joseph

    This episode certainly set things up for next week. It does mirror Errand of Mercy from TOS so who knows, perhaps the war ends in the next episode.

    Great development of Saru. I really feel for him. For a race that always feels scared, experiencing absolute peace for the first time… I’d do anything to keep it too.

    L’Rell is obviously playing both sides. She does not want Kol to be the leader of the Empire, nor do I see her truly defecting to the Federation. Of course with all the twists and turns, she could be a Romulan who is posing as a Klingon. Also count me in the camp of the Admiral still being alive.

    With the Klingon now using cloaking technology in a more widespread fashion we just need to hear about and Kol mentioning he’s from the House of Kor made me think of the Kor episode of DS9 “Once More Unto the Breach” In the episode, Kor mentioned the battle of Caleb IV that occurred shortly after the Klingons got Cloaking technology. Perhaps this the war that battle takes place.

    Since Kol is the head of House of Kor, this would make him Kor’s older brother (The elder brother controls the House)

    I know people think Tyler is really Voq, but more episodes in I don’t see this is the case especially with that Health scan in sickbay at the end of the episode. I’m thinking Voq is the Albino from DS9.

    • TUP

      I have a feeling the similarity was purposeful. Its interesting. Im not sure I love the concept. But I guess it does make sense. In fact, are there none of the other worlds trying to play peace-maker? (And thats not a criticism, because they dont have to show us everything). So it makes sense that Saru, Ash & Michael essentially pleaded with these aliens to help them stop the war and the aliens have some power to bring you personal peace, that they would feel they can be peace-makers.

  • CAPTAIN D-MAN

    Guys, in this episode Saru’s boots sometimes become regular human boots with very thick soles.

  • pittrek

    Again one of the weaker episodes. Not bad in any way, but much weaker than the previous 2 episodes. I felt like I’m watching Avatar mixed with Ferngully for the better half of the episode.

  • kadajawi

    Hm. Mixed feelings about this one.

    Finally a space battle… and it was… not good. The Klingon ships looked odd? Like, they looked fake. Not just the design, something about it was wrong. And the actual battle… I’m sorry, but no. I hate this fast firing nonsense. It’s boring. Watch any DS9 battle sequence. The ships move with grace, with heft. When they fire, the hits feel real, big, damaging. The battles in Discovery remind me of DC Comics movies. Think Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. Massive fights, a ton of destruction, but it looks fake (even though the effects are very well done). But the way they ignore physics… I’ll take the staircase scene from Daredevil season 2 over any scene in any big blockbuster comic book movie any day. We are talking about big ships doing the fighting here, but they fight like Maquis raiders. It makes things look small and inconsequential.

    Maybe I am the only one who sees it this way, but… I actually felt bored. And I love space battles.

    The planet itself looked wonderful, even though you could tell that they tried to shift the green plantation to blue, and around the corners they had problems it seems.

    The story too was fine.

    Klingons were a week point as usual, but not as much. The admiral survived, right? That was the plan. And why was the Klingon lady (thankfully dressed quite strikingly, for differentiating these Klingons is IMHO hard), who was a trained spy, so careless? Why was she talking to the admiral out in the open, walking around like pals? She’s not terribly good at her job…

    I think now I know what the Klingons really remind me of: Someone having gone nuts with ZBrush.

    The episodes are very… episodic. Not a bad thing, but not exactly what the producers have been promising us either. DS9 had done a similar arch, told in a similar way.

    I think the overarching issue I have with the show is that they have impressive technological possibilities these days, and the budget, so they use them. No matter if it is serving the purpose or not. They can do anything with the space battles, and aren’t limited by physical limitations of the models (or a mindset of trying to stay within what is physically possible). So they go beyond what looks good. They can do anything with creature design, and they’ve done amazing things with Saru. But since there’s a limited amount of aliens, especially regular ones, they just couldn’t help themselves with the Klingons, and moved beyond what makes sense for that species. They can do anything with ship design, so again, they do it. Fine in some instances, a terrible idea when it comes to what was already established. They can do anything effects wise… so they do it, even if in universe it’s… questionable.

    So… my verdict: Decent episode, fine character moments and competently done, but the story didn’t wow me, and neither did anything else. There were better episodes, there were worse.

    As usual a short summary of my thoughts on the latest Orville episode as well: It was a well executed episode, well written by Braga, barely any humor (especially none that doesn’t belong there), well directed (again by Braga), with some nice character moments. However the content of the episode… stranded on a planet, their ship can’t fight them, they fight for survival, someone got hurt… it’s all rather stale and old, and they didn’t have anything to add. We’ve seen this on pretty much any instance of Star Trek. Boring. Also, while the effects on Orville are fine, Discovery is leaps and bounds above it. Imagine B5 vs DS9 or TNG, especially when they were using models on DS9 and TNG.

    • pittrek

      I have read a wonderful term for such fight footage – “visual diarrhoea”

    • TUP

      I agree about the space battles. Im not sure what it is. I think the graphics look fine but I guess its the way the battles are “staged”. It does look a bit video game-y. Like you say, in DS9, which had some big space battles, it came across “heavier” like they were real ships.

      That might be my issue. They are almost too cute, even with the non-battle space shots of the Discovery. I want slower pans. It gives the illusion of a “slower” moving ship which gives the illusion of a heavier ship.

      • Nebula1701

        Discovery is smaller than the connie though.

      • kadajawi

        Hm, yes. And ships moved according to their size/weight. So the Galaxy class ships would only slowly accelerate, decelerate or turn, while a small ship like the Defiant or a Bird of Prey would be much more mobile. But still it seems less so than the ships in DSC…? I need to rewatch the scene. Ideally there’d be a few really big ships, like, say, the Constitution class, and a couple of smaller ones. Then they have an easier time of showing how differently the ships behave. Remember the Defiant flying around a big Cardassian ship, outmaneuvering it? That was awesome.

        Another important thing seems to be the weapons. Many fast shots that each leave little damage seems less exciting to me than a couple of well placed, big hits. If the phaser of the Enterprise D hit another ship, that did some damage. And there’s this cool prelude effect, building up momentum. And it is easier for the audience to follow. It’s all so blink and you’ve missed it. On DS9 when a ship was destroyed, you may have seen the phaser being fired… (including the build up), then making contact, tearing through the hull, dissolving it, burning through the ship, until it bursts apart and explodes. That was devastating.

        Perhaps the speed of these battle scenes… the ship movement, the weapons… they are a bit like some action movies that cut 13 times to show someone jump over a fence. That cut 3 times between someone throwing a punch and hitting his target. It gets exhausting, and the viewer can’t follow anymore, is disoriented. And then there are action movies like The Raid, John Wick or some Daredevil episodes, where they just don’t cut for a long time, and the camera keeps enough distance. Suddenly it becomes more impactful and devastating.

        Hopefully the makers of Discovery can fix this, because boring space battles are an issue in a show that’s about war.

      • Victorinox

        That’s because they are moving too fast in the screen. They don’t have to be as slow as WOK, which was insanely slow, but certainly, they should behave like the capital ships they are.

        Looks like they are trying to go more starwarish in these flight/flight scenes. I blame millennials lol

        • kadajawi

          But in Star Wars some ships move fast, some move slow. Of course a Tie Fighter is fast. Have small armed shuttles whizzing about, doing dogfights. Fine! But big ships move slow. Even in Star Wars.

          • Victorinox

            Yeah but my point was that they are trying to go for something more “actiony”. Same reason they went for the pew pew pew style weapons instead of the classic beam style phaser.

          • Matthew Burns

            Star wars battles are great. What we saw here was not in the same league.

          • Victorinox

            I said they are trying. I didn’t say they succeeded lol. For me the problem is that Trek battles usually involve very few ships. DS9 did much better in that regard, but it seems we went back to seeing just a handful of ships on the screen at a time.

      • GhostLoveScore

        I couldn’t see anything in the space battle. It was all too shaky and too fast, I couldn’t catch any details on “Klingon” ships and Discovery. Next, what’s with the shields? They have shields, but torpedoes are going right through them and there is explosion and fire. If you asked me, I would tell you they don’t have shields at all.

      • Joseph

        There were 3 issues that caused the battle to be somewhat odd.

        1 is the ships themselves. Outside of the Discovery and the Birds of Prey fighters, the Gargarin and the Klingon battleships were virtually new and typically you want a good look at the new vessels. One of the reasons DS9 space battles were awesome is because you knew the Galaxy, Miranda, Excelsior classes, So you weren’t fixated.

        2 were the explosion effects on weapons impact. Every hit, even when shields were at 95% was an explosion thinking the hull was breached. In typical battles, you’d see the shields absorb the blows and only see the explosion effect once the shields were collapsing. Also there was no sign the Gargarin was 1 torpedo away from being destroyed.

        3 was the fact we never saw the Klingon ships re-cloak. Apparently, they would decloak, open fire and the cloak again. They never showed the Klingon recloaking and the Discovery missing shots.

    • Snap

      One of the things which didn’t feel right with the opening battle was the destruction of the Gagarin was… underwhelming. It’s like they took a hit and then they were gone. No massive warp core breach, just a normal impact and the ship went out in a puff of “smoke.”

      I agree with you about the effects on The Orville. They aren’t terrible, and I would wager they are pretty good for network TV, but they have a network TV budget as opposed to Discovery’s budget. I know even Discovery’s effects have been slammed by some but I think, whether or not one personally likes the art direction, they could easily fit in with many of the features.

      • TUP

        The effects are good quality. Any issues would be wirh he production design not the quality.

        I prefer Star Trek ships being like big battle ships not fighter jets.

        • Snap

          Yeah, I agree. I was actually never that big of a fan of the Defiant class, though it served its purpose to add mobility to the DS9 stories. They are pretty much the equivalent to fighter jets when it comes to Starfleet ships, weaving in and out and in between the big capital ships. Kind of the Starfleet version of the Klingon Bird of Plrey.

          Oddly, on the side subject of video games for a moment, while the Defiant class had been portrayed as powerful “tough little ship(s),” they were pretty much relegated to cannon fodder in video games such as Star Trek: Armada.

          If there is one critique I would make to Discovery’s effects, it would be that anything involving space, whether it is ships or space stations, they are always rendered VERY dark so a lot of times you cannot really get a good look and certainly cannot appreciate the details.

          However, Discovery is a young series and with a second season on the horizon, there is room to tweak things.

          • Nebula1701

            Yes they are rendered Darker and if you have a good TV the detail pops even with that. The darker scenes are actually closer to reality because in reality space is DARK and you wouldn’t see as much detail without a close light source.

          • TUP

            I liked the Defiant because it was different but now you have every big ship tilting, diving, flipping etc during battles.

          • Matthew Burns

            I sometimes watch old TNG episodes (on bluray of course!) and think, great FX (models)! Just saying!

  • Victorinox

    Making out on an away mission? Meh. Great start/good battle then boring Saru. 3 stars.

    Also:
    1- Does this mean Tyler’s not a Klingon? Otherwise Saru would have sensed him through the magic rock… Right? How about those vital signs? All human right?
    2- Is Tilly a Captain in the mirror universe?
    3- Good VFX for the battle, new planet and new species. Horrible for running Saru!!

    • Nebula1701

      “Making out on an away mission?” That’s nothing new! xD *see Kirk’s woman of the week*

      • Victorinox

        Sure, same with Riker. I get that. I just think it is weird for two officers to be in an alien planet, in the middle of the woods, in a critical mission, more focused of kissing each other.

        That felt to me a bit forced. Unlike the scenes between them in the prior episode. Those felt very appropriate and natural.

        Still, nobody would ever beat that scene with Kirk putting his boots back on after boning some alien. How that made it past the 60s censors is beyond me.

    • Forest Elephant

      I thought maybe Staments had glimpsed Tilly in the future when she was a captain, but interesting thought on the Mirror Universe. They haven’t followed up on the creepy scene with Staments’ reflection yet – maybe this is a glimpse of whatever that was.

  • Aaron

    I might be a bit late to the party with this little nugget of info, but this is pretty cool! I bring you, the real Paul Stamets – an actual mycologist (a person who studies fungi, such as mushrooms!)

    http://www.fungi.com/about-paul-stamets.html

    • Forest Elephant

      There is an interview with him in one of the early Discovery after show episodes talking about how the spore drive idea developed.

  • Not my fav, I can see the set up they are going for here but it was weak IMO. There was still some good stuff in there, but this was the first one I felt was weak.

    On a happy note, they at lest colored planet Canada blue.

    • Forest Elephant

      I was wondering how much of the planet was green screen and how much was real. It is interesting to have planets that don’t look like Southern California.

      • Nebula1701

        They Filmed in Canada. The studio is not located in California.

        • Forest Elephant

          Yes, was just referencing that all previous Trek television’s outdoor planets resemble locales in Southern California and nice to see some new scenery.

          • Nebula1701

            ah!

      • Agreed, they did a pretty good job of making it somewhat alien

      • Kf

        Yup it looks like it was filmed either near Hamilton mountain escarpment or in that area